Hey, this is the moment. I'm Brian koppelman. Thanks for listening. My guest today is Sam Worrell a guy. I like a great deal hilarious comedian. Really one of my favorite comedians, I think and I've come to know him after the I mean, I've known you I think I've known you since 2007 or something like that. It's been a while.
And I've always you're somebody that all the comedian's always said hey watch this guy. He's a great writer. And and it's true dude. I really do think you're great performer because Goldman Goldman has told me many times that some comedians like you if you hear your great joke writer, you might think we'll that mean I suck at perform him, you know, yeah, we always take a
compliment and spin it a new and insole. That's what we all know, like you're a good writer like so I'm bad at this. It's such a it's such an awful.
Yeah, and I know I don't I I'm flattered when someone says you're a good Rider. I don't I don't take it as an insult.
I mean, where do you like what which part of the thing? I mean, I know it all matters. But but where do you take the most sort of either Pride or put the most Focus or which part of it? Do you work the most at that? Is it is it writing? Is it performing? Can you separate them? Are they one
thing? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think the writing is like the gym and then the Performing is like the show.
You know, I mean, it's your you can I had someone say to me like well big deal you'll get back on stages like riding a bike. And I said no man, it's first off. I can't ride a bike. So that's a horrible analogy and second off.
You know, it's not because it's like it's like telling there's a reason their spring training, you
know, you have to get back into shape or stay in shape. So the sets and the sets are what keep you in shape, but the writing is really
What makes you ready to even do that? Like it's like almost like I guess is stretching is a better analogy.
Right? No, I think the analogy you want to get is the game because you said writing is like the gym and Performing as like the show, which yeah, I think isn't may be that clean because it's me not the show is performing performing is the show you my life. I
meant I meant to show is in like the major leagues. But yeah
the major leagues sure. Yeah. Yes that it is the show. Yes, and you want to get more than your cup of coffee. So, um, you know, you had such a
Donating career dude, and you know, you have a podcast you have to podcasting our one podcast. Well, one of them is
like we do every once in a while is the movie one but the the podcast I do every week or twice a week, which is with Stavros that you've been on pod. Don't lie. We just talk
Hoops pod don't lie is great. It's funny and smart and I loved and I
loved being against no, but you have
this podcast we're going to talk a lot about your special and how that came to be what you put on YouTube and his millions of people have watched it and it really really is.
Incredibly successful. First of all, it's a great special and then also it actually did a ton for you. And I wonder do you feel like you've made it as a comedian and if so, what was the moment and if not, like what are your Ambitions? How do you define that that term and and don't say I don't think about things like that because nobody doesn't think about the
know I think about all the time. I don't think I I'm not where I want to be. I feel like you know, I have a career and I'm grateful that I have a career but you know
No, I don't think I've made it to where I even close to where I want to be.
You know, what
is so your mind like if the kids that you grew up with you haven't yet shown them that you've made it
I think they think that I probably have a cool life and I love my life. But yeah, I just have other Ambitions like I think stand-up is one thing but I want to make TV and I want it. I want to do other things as well as just stand by stand up is the main thing always but I want to put out a lot. I feel like this was my best special and I want to keep putting out better and better especially
That's the
goal whose career. Do you look at or or or model or think like? Well, that's sort of something that is it like a modern some is it like with The Arc Schumer took or is it the the arc that Steve Martin to like, who do you look at and think like, well, this is sort of and I meant Amy Schumer not Chuck Schumer double weird switch heaviest rains like for you to do but on
man, I hate you know what I hate so much as I saw Chris Evans on Bill Maher show and he was talking about how he's like, you know, I'm not
no, I don't really think I'm educated enough for a career in politics. And then every headline is like Chris Evans moles career in politics,
like every headline
is so evil now, but no I don't I don't think I don't think Amy's I respect Amy's career so much and I love Inside Amy Schumer and train wreck and everything, but I don't think I'm that type of like, I think she's like Lucille Ball. I think she's like such an amazing actor eyes. I don't think I'm mad. I think I'm just kind of me. I think I would.
It would be more of like either in it. I'm working on trying to develop an animated show right now. That's something I'm really really passionate about and then if stand up comes back, I'd like to hit the road hard. So I don't know if there's one person I really see but
It's tough. I think there's little things that I like formal. I love what bilborough's career has been where he's got this animated show and he's got a stand-up career. And I think that's that's pretty cool.
Right? He's he's respected by his peers a tremendous amount and he has a really
dedicated audience that loves them. Yeah. I think that's that's important. And also I just like I love jokes. I really just think it's not like I see certain people kind of develop this fan base and then kind of they become
Allison I think it's great to always evolve but I am a little bit fearful of you know, the like well now you have a duty to be this like voice of the people and I was kind of like I'm just I just write good jokes and that's I don't know, you know, I think it is important to be involved in causes and to be a good person but I also want to I want to stay funny. I see some people like that almost takes precedent to jokes at a certain point. It's like what you got to remember
Member what got you here? Also, you
know, yeah what your people like what who well who you are, right? Like the reason I think some people who are very funny and who are like I was talking to Judd about this and Judds hilarious and a cheat, you know brilliant artist, but I actually think I mean we said in the podcast like I think he just actually genuinely feels the do it's not performative. It's like he just feels like he has to do that almost serving the same thing in him that fires up the art and I don't think you can
Take that. I think that's either who you are or it's not that's a good. I mean,
yeah, that is a good job as a good example of someone who I do really believe is a good person. And and yeah,
I think there and I mean you would say that even if you didn't hope to be cast in his stuff, right, I mean you just
say I don't think I ever will be I'm saying it strictly as I just know him and like him, you know, just fucking her and I hope you heard that second part as very sincere so I get
cast that's good. No, that's why I set you up for that. I tried to give you a little set so you can spike it across for what it is.
Isn't it's crucial. When when did you first decide like I want to hear about your your your life and and I think that people should watch the special but and the thing the special it's you have this great gift as a comedian Sam, which is you bring people in a way that feels very, you know, it's funny. There are guys who are just joke guys like jazz on deck or something where you know, even when he talks about his father, he's not really talking about his father. He's just it's all setups for
Jokes, but you actually kind of bring us into your emotional truth even as you tell these jokes, but you still keep it a little like, you know, you're not a fully confessional comedian. But so I want to give people some insight into your into your life and what I actually felt like to grow up the way you did. So like when did you first decide that being funny really mattered to you? I think you know, I'm the youngest
kid in my family. We were blended family, you know, if to step siblings who were older
And we're just absolute overachievers. And and I think that was like, well, I'm not going to be smarter than them. That was one. So you're finding ways to get attention. I was like it's not going to be that also. It was just a weird thing that kind of just happened. We just were now all living in the same household and we didn't really talk about it. We know it was never like, okay now we're it was just like we're family now and I was like, all right, there was never a conversation, you know, so
really wait. What do you mean go slower on that? How old were you I'd this is fascinating. I like your house.
I was probably seven or eight I think seven I think
and you knew that your mom was dating so like to explain you knew your mom. She knows she
got married to who the dad who raised me who's an amazing dad at at 7:00. They met when I was probably three or four she was a single mom before then and right, you know, I liked him instantly. I also you know, it's just a weird thing not to tell we never talked about it. So I would just use humor to break the ice. There would be a lot of
like
so you mean he just came with two kid. He came along with two kids.
Yeah.
And they were older and they were both very quiet my brother and sister are very quiet. They don't talk a lot and my mom and I and my dad is kind of like a reserve their they listen. They're all listeners. My mom and I are we talk were loud and we're stalkers and we're right, you know, so it was a weird pairing at first and it was like there was just weirdness that I'd noticed it first that I think like I'd have to address the discomfort and no one else I felt
In the family really addressed the discomfort, except me and then as a kid doing it, it felt kind of innocent and playful but that was the only way we really addressed it. So that was that was my first like jokes jokes, I think
where were you like, where'd you grow up
originally like the Chelsea Flatiron area and then Upper East Side?
So you're in New York City and are you as a young kid able to walk around and take the subway and stuff. Are you parents protective? Like what was it like they're
protective. But yeah, I did all that and you know, you take the bus to school everyday take the like yeah, I was I was out and about and my mom was so protective because I'm only biological kid. So, you know my brother and sister have they have a mom. That's just was you know that my my dad who raised me was divorced from so they have a mom and
So she wasn't their mom
so that was tense in the house. But then that also made my mom so unbelievably overprotective like I remember I felt I smoke too much weed in my friends house one night. I just fell asleep from smoking too much weed. I shit you not I wake up with sixty three missed calls from my mom
63 and I was just like what like like as if you left
57 I would have been like this can wait, you know what I mean? Like
Clearly this is urgent. I was asleep and she was oh my God. She was so mad. I mean, that's how she was she would I would be grounded. She was always I would come home drunk all the time too young I was I was a bad kid and I acted out because my brother and sister seemed perfect to me. They my sister who went to Harvard Law, you know, my brother went to Columbia Law. I'm telling jokes and bars, you know, like I had this black sheep sense of myself and and I just had a low self-esteem.
How much older are they?
My
sister is seven years old and my brother is five years older,
right? So they were like in high school when you were in elementary school or whatever
and yeah, they were like that.
So they were around and you were you were watching them. And were you able to break them up like when you were funny, were you able to get a
reaction from absolutely? Yeah. Absolutely. I think my sister was like she would kind of roll her eyes like oh God. He's so like he's vulgar is inappropriate, but she I think she yeah little my brother very much. So like my
Have I think him having a younger brother too? Kind of like mold him having like a young buck. Like it was probably fun for him. And we did I'm still close in my brother, you know
and are they proud of like what you've accomplished liked it when you put the spatula up did they check in and tell you like nice job? I don't know and I actually don't remember. I think my
brother might have said something. I think he said like I think he didn't say like good job, buddy. He says something like wow, is that real? Like how many views at God? I think he was he was
shot.
I don't think it was like good job. It was like this. This isn't a hoax.
That's very warm. That's where it's sweet. It's amazing. So so no starting to get the picture that you're in the house and and feeling a bunch of different things because of the situation that you were in and what was the story at school. Were you were you considered smart by the teachers or at least did your friends recognize that you were witty? I mean, how'd that all go for?
Are
you I think it changed over time. I think at first the teachers hated me because I would just make crafts jokes for attention and then at a certain point I
just it was low
self-esteem and wanting to be noticed, you know, it's always been that and then you know, when I got to like 11th 12th grade my grades started to get really good and and I was more like I was trying to make the teachers laugh then try to make the class. I was trying to make you like everyone laugh instead of
like, what do you think caused that shift?
I think just doing better in school and growing up a little bit. I think also like I had this one teacher. Dr. Lin who is like the funniest dude, like it's just a like a southern guy with like a thin upper body and then a huge Beer Gut like Giant and bifocals and a mustache and he got like I would just be silly with him and he would just say shit like like Sam get out and I would I was a bad kid. I would lift my legs up and fart and he would be and he would laugh and then throw me out of class. So at a certain point
He was on I remember like there was one point. So we're at Browning. It's on the the schools on the Upper East Side. And yeah, we're across from the Regency Hotel. So we have a whole view of all the entire hotel
and all the blinds
are open all the time. We just see a naked woman and he's in the middle of election. I remember I just stood up and I yelled tits
and did not I did and he and he just was like he
turns and sees it and then turns back to me and he last but of course he kicked me out and it was like that.
It was like he I think he enjoyed our Dynamic where it was like he was I was like the troublemaker and he had put me in my place, but he remember want one moment. He said in class. He said, you know, I think you're going to be successful in whatever you do because you're he says I'm like, you're smarter than you let on like you. I think I had to play up that I was I thought it was like Dahmer because that was how I fell in my family sometimes, you know, so I think that was the role I took on
That's pretty awesome like to actually have somebody say that you know, I tweeted this thing out the other day that like all sorts of people responded to and retweeted about how like nowhere in my educational life. Did I had a great Drama teacher and that was great but no other but nowhere in my educational life. Did anybody ever say to me? You could be a writer? They would just always say to me.
You know for someone so smart, you're such an idiot. Basically, they would only mention that I was smart in literally in the same sentence. They were telling me why they wanted to kick me out of school. Honestly, like that was my life. And so if I could add someone cleanly say to me you're going to be successful like my parents did is I was lucky in that in the house everyone did but outside of the house. Nobody did like that at school so did must have felt pretty good like you're remembering it now. I imagine you're in 10th Grade
that it landed for you what he yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it meant a lot to me because I thought he thought I was dumb to so that meant a lot and then
did that contribute to you like grind starting to grind a little bit. It's click. What made you decide to grind a little at school? You want to go to college like yeah, that was
that was a big part of it. My mom was like you're not going to get into a good school. If you don't if you don't figure it out, so that was a big part of it and then I mean but it was all low self-esteem. I remember my first joke when I was like 18 was my English teacher told me I reminded her of a young Hemingway and I said because I'm
I'm a good writer and she said no, I think you're an alcoholic who's going to kill himself. That was like BTW my first joke. It was like that's low self-esteem. Right when I was in we had a health class and I remember that the teacher was she was a nurse teaching it and I remember just bombing a jokes. I meant to doing a bit about this at some point. I forgot the bed exactly but it was like she was talking about testicular exams and I raised my hand in the class and I said my doctor gave me a testicular exam.
And he just kept his hand down there and played with my penis and she and she was like, is that true? And I was clearly maybe it wasn't funny. I was just trying to like be sure and I just said I just panicked. So I said yes and no you didn't I did I did and then I had to talk to after class in her wasn't true. But in the bid I remember saying something like instead of admitting that I told a shitty joke. I decided to incriminate a pediatrician
right incriminate a pediatrician that's a really good example of what you do with words that so
Oh great. I mean obviously you think about words so much even that Hemingway joke 18 is very it's the subject matter is sophisticated but also the word choices really good like
Kevin's family about your right to aside. I love I love on billions how you have like Paul Giamatti reading Raymond Chandler. I'm like man everything about I love that like, I mean, I love Raymond Chandler so I get happy when I see my see him reading the long goodbye or whatever murky has picked up on billions and and you guys make such I mean, I feel like the dialogue of every character.
That show just kind of sings. I love it.
We're so specific. Thank you for saying but yeah, Dave and I are just super specific about all that stuff. I mean, it's similar. Honestly it like I mean gold and I talk about this stuff a lot. Like if you're given the opportunity like Dave and I are given the opportunity to make this show.
How do you squander it but without at least trying you're very hardest to make every moment as special as you can. It's like the same thing of getting up on stage. Like, you know, you getting up on stage. You have this 15 minutes or this 20 minutes. Yeah. We're it's your they're all looking at you and you get to imprint upon them. What's in your brain. Like I completely understand why comedian spend that much time on incriminated pediatrician Rhythm of the meter know right? It's meter its way.
Feels it's it's not just the it's the words the way the words go together it what they add up to and how satisfying it must just feel so satisfying to you when you lock one of those in yeah, and you're like, well that can't be any better that that little piece of it's nailed, right?
Yeah feels really really good and it's that you kind of know usually because sometimes you're like that words like that's that word sounds kind of pompous. I would never just say that and convert the words got to see be something you would say and
ation, but then also if you could find like like those the amount of syllables for some reason, it's just it's just good and that joke, it just works.
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during the pandemic. I've just been writing songs a
lot and I've been writing with a cut the other day. I wrote with this guy who's a really important country music song writer guy won't say his name now. He didn't have to
Tell me to or whatever, but the way that he would sweat over literally one word in the second verse of a song and he would go walk put his guitar down lean back on his couch and just go almost said a minute. I got to think and he was just like, you know resume we're like over zoom and I'm looking and is it did he fall asleep and then he comes back and he know it should be this not that and it was just like the grinding and I was like, I understand exactly why.
That dude has written 25 fucking number one songs because most people would have just blown through it and that guy was sitting there and he didn't care how long it took. He wasn't going to say the verse was done until the exact right word was in there. And and I I find the older I get the more artists. I know the more I respect people who not let writer's block win and don't do the work but who in the doing of the work hold themselves before it's finished to a really high standard and I've talked to you about
this stuff and I think you're the same way when you watch comedians, right? I am I also think
that content is kind of killing that quality thing. The need for content is really bad folk kind of what you're talking about right now, which is you know, a perfect joke or a perfect song people's appetite is it's just in and out now everything you make is it just seems like that. I heard that Spotify CEO say something along the lines, you know, and he's not the guy to be saying this was something along the lines of like
Artists who make a record every three to four years. It's her own fault. They're not making money. But like there is some truth to that were like yet right now. There is a need. I mean Louis was a guy of Our Generation who started putting out an hour every year year and a half and I feel like that was kind of ahead of its time because you know, he's one of the only guys who would do it well, but man, it's hard to it's hard to put out great stuff that quickly and that's kind of where we're at right now.
I think
but don't you think it depends on what your what Your empty what your aims are like your you want to be famous and you want to be successful and you want to make the money at it?
But it all it certainly seems to me like you're like you're playing a slightly different game like yeah, you're letting your content get caught up and put out and all that stuff and and you said like and then and that Comedy Cellar live thing worked really well for you, but I felt like you were still grinding to make those jokes work to do. I worked really hard on
them. Yeah. I love writing topical jokes that I feel that like anyone can laugh at that's kind of a thing a lot of comics now, it's hard to write.
Medical jokes or jokes about a social issue that don't have a bias. That's you know, that that's funny that red state am blue State. That's that's kind of the challenge now is like I want my jokes to bring people together. I don't want like of course I'll have jokes here and then that all like divide people up because you can't bad at that. I was in but
like it's so easy to
Pander or let your emotions get caught up in a joke when it's that new I think sometimes jokes that you're passionate about need room to breathe.
And with those types of jokes, so that type of show you don't have that time.
I love what you just said though about the red blue because like obviously, you know where I stand politically and all that stuff. But like I came across a Ron White bit the other day and I was so I laughed my ass off and I was so glad that I laugh my ass off at at someone who I don't know his politics, but I just can't imagine that we share mud. You just going by his white suit, you know, go my the whole thing. I don't I don't think that we're seeing much the same but I love the idea that he could his bit about getting pulled over by a cop for drunk driving.
And it just had me howling and I did think that's the beautiful thing about comedy when it's done, you know the right way, it just cuts across all of it. Because if you're fucking laughing you're laughing and then when you're laughing, you also can't help but like the person making you laugh and I like thought I had the whole thought in my head exactly what you're saying, which is it's a great thing when that stuff sort of like nails it in that way yet. You want the comedy to be about something I think to write
absolutely but Ron at why
It is a great example because I agree with you what you're saying and there's something lost like Twitter has no Nuance, right someone posted joke and people just assume the absolute worse. Whereas I hear when you heat when you see Ron's face and you hear his delivery. You assume the best.
Yes, right. I mean, he was umm, empathy and all sorts of stuff. That's why that's why just seeing the word written. It's like man Twitter. It's so toxic. Ron has a bit. I love
about cheating on his wife and it's one of the funniest bits I've ever heard and he
A
bit by saying my wife got this crazy little idea that I cheated on her and Columbus and I did not tell you why and it just
kills like the way he's I mean and then he tells a story and you're like I get I get I look I'm
not going to condone that but you get it and and and it's you build a character it's you but it is a bit of a character because you're performing and
and people connect to you because it's like how often do we see people on social media? We were like
that guy's a fucking asshole.
All on Twitter, but I know him and I like him when I see him and
that's because I just think social
media really brings out the worst in US
it certainly can bring out like the most strident Parts in us or the parts and it's an outrage machine. Yeah, but I also find it too easy to slam on it and like a lot of good stuff has come out of it for me connection like without
Social like I feel you and I know each other much better because of social media,
right? I'm not saying everybody is bad on social media, but I do think it brings out the worst often. You know, I can't say anything. Yeah everybody. I think you were like posting people like you or Josh condiment post positive stuff that actually makes me feel better, you know, but not everyone's like that.
He's nicer. Let me just be clear that he's nicer than I am. There's no I just I don't want to I don't want to try to claim that I'm as sainted a person as Josh called woman because
Well, Josh is nice on Twitter. But he is a raving lunatic in real
life. I mean several calls Josh condiment a prick on compliment
podcast know the best the best guy. Obviously the nicest guy like has to be the
nicest of all the
comedian's baby. Yeah, amazing
pretty much it's so you're 18. You start studying for school more. Yeah your eye because you thinking
and I became completely obsessed like I thought
Going to be a different type of comedian when I was younger. I thought I was going to be like more of what does that mean? Like I thought it'd be like maybe I was like maybe I could be like a comedic actor and I became obsessed with the rioting and it became all about Greg Giraldo and Dave Attell and Chris Rock and right and Rodney Dangerfield and Carlin and prior and we had like a locker room with a with a Boombox and I would connect I don't even know if it was like a minidisc player who never had a I had at the time and it would
but great. Is this Sam like what grade is
this 11th or 12th? Probably?
And so 11th and 12th grade you're starting to listen. All those
albums became obsessed with jokes. And yeah. Yeah, and then I went to comic strip and Caroline's a couple of times. I saw Patton Oswalt and Dave Attell at Caroline's and both of those were huge for me at L was funny in a way. I had never seen it blew my blew my mind and then I saw Bill Burr and Kevin Brennan a comic strip and they were both so funny and I became obsessed with it. And I finally you know, what?
In the first the first hint I got was the first taste I got rather was a for the last three weeks of school. The assignment was you have to do either type of community service. You have to do some sort of work, but as to be volunteer-based and instead of coming to school, so my project was I was just a gym coach at Alan Stephenson on the Upper East Side, they needed a gym guys and I was just I loved it. I loved it so much and I had so I end up doing a summer job with them.
I think two summers I loved it and it was such a good gig and I turned we all had to give a speech for the whole school about our experience and I just wrote a stand-up routine about it. I just made it and they already like it was a bullshit fluke of killings because everyone in that room wanted me to succeed because they already thought I was funny. So that's this is what Young Comics will ask me a lot. They're like, well, how do I do that? And like, well, you got your ready your friend think you're funny because they're your friends. They love you.
Right you now have to show you're funny to strangers and you have to show much more quickly. You don't get that built-in I can fuck up and win them back courtesy
laugh. So what happened so you get so you get up at your school assembly Browning and do at the assembly. Yeah, and you destroy I can Eric senior you're a senior and you destroyed I
kill and then my friends were like, I think you can do this. I really do think like you've got timing you're funny and I felt really good. It was one of those
things are what did it feel? What did it feel like
Sam being up there and doing
that so funny. So alright my teacher. Mr. Ingram Shawnee who's my English teacher was such a good teacher like introduce me to some of my favorite books ever to this day. You know, it was such a such a great teacher and he
He I got off stage and he said you're really good. He's like you are really funny guy. And then I went back to speak at Browning last year to give like a they asked me to do an interview and they said well could it teach is there any teacher who could interview and I said mr. Unger sauna, so he interviewed me. So that was a weird like kind of awesome
coming together there and he was so did you remind him that he had said that to you?
He didn't remember it all for me. It was a big moment, but for him, he was like 120.
Talking about really.
Yeah, you didn't remember you doing that stand-up comedy or he did I think he
like vaguely remembered it
being a lot of a lot of a lot of kids coming through. He's first a thousand young punks.
He was like, you know, what the some kid? I don't remember you but a kid a year after had like a prior effect on the crown. I was
like really not get it but now keep he was great.
He so he interviewed me and that was big and then I was like, I don't know what to do next. I remember I met Patton Oswalt after a show of
Airlines I just lingered till we came out and I said right and you know, I've never told Paden this but he said I said, what do I do? I don't know what to do to do what you do I do I do it and he just I was that articulate and he said some he said
email me and I will respond to
you and he gave me his email and then he also said and do every Open Mic you can in the meantime and he did and he did respond to me and I started doing mics and they were horrible.
They were absolutely like not good in any
way you started doing Mike sweat. So did you get into that what college did you get into then?
I was I was going off to Tulane, but I was a freshman for Katrina. So that was an issue obviously, right? So I had done at this point. I'd done a couple of mics and I did it. I took the class in the comic strip Joe Mackey who's still one of my clothes right was in the class with me, which is insane that
it Linda Smith teacher who taught
it DF sweet Lou Who was great. He really was
You know, he could be a comedian but he also was generous and kind and he stayed that way I've
always so wait so you took it. So I want to go slow here. You took the so you're 18 you graduate high school. You're like, I think I have to try to do this. Yeah, I want to know as well. It says do a bunch of open mics, you know open mics freak me out. They always did I did a lot of them too, but talk about what that was like as a kid as you looked around. Did you did you have blinders on so that you you wouldn't think to yourself God I could become.
I'm one of these people like because there's usually only one other kind of sane person in an open
mic, right? Yeah, it's tough. You just like holy shit. I guess I've had good parents in a sheltered life in a lot of ways because you look around from Mike and there's like dudes and like battle fatigues and you're just like what this guy definitely didn't serve in the Army, but he is nuts and then
so yeah. It's a lot of
a lot of weirdos at the mics and just
speaking I mean
Worst part
of the mic isn't even bombing. It's the amount of bad comedy. You have to listen to yes,
so and then and then the bombing or not bombing, but that sort of like just disregard that happens a lot of the time were you able to get laughs at the mic? Not not often
involved with me was you know, I was very jokey at the mics and I think the people that killed at the mics were the ones who either shitting on how bad the mics were shitting on other Comics or whatever or the people who would act like everything was coming off the top of their head.
Head,
you know and I'm just like my punchlines are obvious. So
if I killed I would really kill but if I bombed it was it was horrible. It was really horrible.
Yeah, once or twice when I was doing my ex like at stand-up New York like some tourist happen to walk in it says talking like that table would be all you would I would look at and basically if you could just get one or two of them to laugh once or twice I would feel like well that was just a gigantic win
that huge huge and also the real people laugh sometimes felt
Like more than the comic class because the comics would sometimes they would just laugh at the most dark awful shit and you're like, well, I'm trying to like have a career in this. You know, I'm not I'm not trying to kill only in Long Island City at
this coffee shop.
But yes
so that we do a couple of mics and they didn't make you feel good. Basically it was painful.
Yeah, and then I remember One mic. I did Gary veter who's one of my good friends now was on the mic and no one pays attention. You're just all miserable. You're looking to your own notes and Gary's bomb.
Aiming with really funny jokes. He's the good jokes and he's bombing and he's it's at Maui Taco in 30-something Street in Herald Square not bragging but he he's
bombing so hard and he just turns to me and he goes up. Look at this asshole. He's not even listening. I was just like wow, that's how you met. That's how you guys
met. It's how we met the next night my co-host of the time booked him on our bar show and I was like, oh hey and he's like, hey, sorry and I was like, I get it. I mean we all we all break down at these mics.
No,
That well those bonding experiences with be I mean, you know Sodor and I and Joe Alexander Steve Dan's friend the three of us did a bunch of Mike's together in the early days and that bonded Dan and me forever. Yeah, just going through that
experience. You need a buddy. I always tell young Comics you need a Mike buddy because you don't want to go in there alone. You just just having a buddy not only drives you to write but it also just drives you to like, it's
well, then you have somebody you're trying to make been because I remember
Then those nights where if I could get Dan if you know if I would be done and like Dan and that Ruby was there a lot too. And if one of those two guys would be like, oh that's setups pretty good or that punch line. You would go. All right something or or it's also was great when you would just when I would just just totally bomb, you know, just one of those times where you just bomb and it's not even the audience. It's just your fault like you just suck. Yeah, and I loved those nights when I would come off and I'd look at Dan and he would just look at me like God damn that was horrible and it just makes you feel so much.
Better write in a way.
Yeah it also like you kind of take your licks, you know, like watching there's something like you would you admire your friends more when they kind of bomb gracefully and every once in a while bomb horribly, you know, you're not going to always bomb gray. So but like I remember seeing or in the early days seem like Marc Norman bomb, but he kind of kept his composure and I was like, oh that was cool you yeah you feel closer to them for sure when I remembered all the comics I barked with on the street and you're like I feel closer to them for sure.
You do right. So so so how did it talk about just the beginning of how how it happens you're doing these mics you write patent and what a patent dew point you to certain shows that people were doing in the city. He didn't know he
didn't know any the mice because he was in LA guy. He just really encouraged me. That's all it was. He just said keep doing mics and write as much as you can and that's really kind of what it became
and what you're saying. You never told him you mean he doesn't know you were that kid who wrote them? You don't think no, I
don't know patent. Well, I mean we DM here and there on Twitter, but
I don't know him well,
but you don't think he's connected that you're that guy like your special is that kid who came up to my bet you he knows he's no dummy. I don't think so much know you think
he remembers a just a random person who all the gigs he's done. I don't think so.
But you wrote him and he wrote you back. I'll
do you one better. I still have I've done the road and open for Dave Attell and many times, you know with work with day for a long time. He's probably been the most supportive person in my career and I have an autographed playbill still at home from
Caroline's from
Mattel and he did you didn't tell him Ike
he would fucking he would just be he would cringe I remember we were driving once
and I will give you know, someone's going to tell him now, right? You just said it out here be setting on your podcast. Have you set it on your own podcast? I
don't think so. No, but I with Dave, I mean I've been in a car with him where he's like, I think he said to me we're just talking comics and he and it were driving and he said who your favorite comics when you were young guy and he said Bill Hicks and Allan Havey and he said
You and I said I said you and Geraldo and they could just see him. There's like fuck like he just he can't take the
compliment. I think it just
made me I still couldn't get away because he was driving. So normally he would like walked away.
That's awesome. I love that about Havey Havey was the
Best comedian in New York. He's so
funny. I agree. You just have he still the front. You just have no idea what he was able to
do back. Yeah saying she know Jon Stewart says the same thing that Alan's the best single said he ever saw was Alan. Wow.
And yet he said Jon Stewart said that like in Vanity Fair magazine or something. That's true. That's the truth. It was yeah. Alan was UT would just tear the fucking roof off the place.
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Calm / moment.
So what happens walk me through how you end up passing in the city and what the journey was like for you did you go off to Tulane? I did I got there and after a couple
of days they were like it's gonna be a small storm, you know, just get a hotel and Katrina good job. So then I was back in the city and I
how did you get out? Wait, how did you get out Sam what happened? My
family was with me luckily and we had so funny. I had the my roommate.
Tulane internet to be like the worst roommate on the planet. They drove us to Houston from New Orleans and then we flew back and we flew at a Houston. That's how we got home and then I went to school in the city and just kind of kept barking doing that stuff. I was at Columbia for that term because anyone would accept a two-lane students. We were like America's Sweethearts, you know, the displaced Tulane
kids. But so you were able to you were at still getting a two-lane degree, but at
Columbia, yeah, and then I ended up
going back to Tulane and I now is obsessed with stand up and after Katrina there was nowhere to get up into Lanes so that that was difficult for me because I didn't want to be like, well, you know, I'm also just such a New Yorker and this I love New Orleans to visit but it's such a slow pace to that City. Like it's everything is like so slow and you couldn't do your thing, right? It was tough. It was definitely it became
tough. And then I end up
looking for school. I was like maybe transferred and
An NYU and I went back to New York and
we was the time onstage. So I want to just be granular about one thing. So like I often talk about the fact that when I was working full time, but Dave and I were writing the first script those two hours of the day. I just felt so alive it made me know like I
have to do this other thing and
yeah, so like what was it the writing of like that back then? How did you write like, what was the process like for you? Okay, you couldn't get up onstage all the time.
Then you started to like what how did you organize yourself to write? A lot of guys want to be a comedian, but you had to be right I had how did you so what did you do to make that a reality? Like, what did you write? Like? How did you get better like just talk a bit granularly about what that process was.
Well, I write the same way. I write now. It was just in a Word document or with a notepad on my back in my back pocket. I would just kind of scribble thoughts all day and I would just write and when I was at Tulane, I was a
Men, and there was this guy Josh Schwartz who is a senior who's actually an agent at UTA now and
he was kind of dabbling in comedy, but I could
tell he didn't really want to be a comic but he would drive me to the open mic. I mean I can't drive so he would drive me to the open mic every week and it was awesome. It was so nice of him. And even when he wouldn't go up, he's like, I just want to be around comedy which I thought was so cool and oh, yes, awesome. So I would do the mic and then there was one good Mike a week in New Orleans. I did it every week but it's like
You know, it's one night a week. You're not for me. I wasn't
reading where's the hope to get was the hope to then get noticed and pass at that club and be able to get on stage
at that club. It wasn't even a club. There was a club but it shut down after Katrina. So it was just a it was called Lucy's Retired Surfer Bar. It wasn't even a club and it was just knows like let me just get better it will I had no aspirations. I mean, that's the one good thing. I'll say about a lot of time comedy classes are a scam. But when I took DS class at the strip, like he didn't make any promises a lot of those.
Would be like you'll get on you'll get a tape for Letterman in six months. And it's like you don't know what you're talking about. You're lying to me, right but no I my goal is we really like, how can I get really good at this that was really my goals
and how would you write you said with a Word document? But what was the like we're you okay that Jerry Seinfeld think I'm setting aside two hours or was it I'm walking around and when I have an idea, I'll write it down and then I'll open the document. Like how did you start to collect your thoughts that became
jokes both I would write I
would walk around and I would usually have a decent amount of Thoughts by the end of the day and then I would write all those thoughts. I would transfer them from the notepad to a Word document and then it's like you're seeing them in a different form. So you that kind of changes how you look at them a little bit as opposed. Like now they're typed I can edit them a little more easily and I would just build bigger and bigger documents and I would run them by friends and because I couldn't get on stage enough. So K is this funny. I had a bunch of great friends at Tulane who were like, you know, I and I
Do gigs there at two occasionally, but the friends were supportive.
And then would you continue to because your jokes are so specific word wise you're writing about like a lot of people early on the mistake is just reading them exactly. Like how did you learn right? You know what? I mean? That's a real mistake the memorizing them and just like saying them. So did you fall into that trap or were you able to know I got to be loose with it and then try to lock it. Like how did that all come about that? It's
really can't fake it or at least I wasn't a good enough actor to fake it I think those people that become too attached to the written word and it sounds
So not conversational that's just a lack of stage time. I think I think you know because then even the people that are doing it completely written like Jeselnik, there's such a strong Persona and he has all these funny tags. I mean, so yes, the people that
keep a kind of mad that guy is a master of the form of the thing. He does. I do think he's a
master I mean and no one's better at the at the left turn than Jeselnik. Yeah, he's great at it and or seven takes someone like Stephen right? I mean, that's there. That's what they do, you know.
No Hedberg or whoever you want to look at.
Yeah you even if you keep it
somewhat written they find a way to inject enough of their character or themselves into the joke that it doesn't feel that way. So that's just that's just reps and
time but yours has this confessional quality to it, right? Even if it's not all real confessional. It's like confessional QWOP. Your thing is a story telling jokes, right? That's why you're different than those guys. Certainly that Hedberg or whatever and so
How did you would you write down paragraphs or would you just write down? Yeah, like the set the Loosely to so how would you do it? Yeah, I've written
down long. I've been down like some now I do it a little less but I still write bullet points for stories where I so I know so I don't forget punchlines. But yeah, I've talked to comics about I remember I asked Jim Jefferies ones because he had this 24-minute bit about about taking a childhood friend with muscular dystrophy to a brothel and I thought it was such an incredible bed and I was like man, I did do that.
Do you write it down to goes what? I'm gonna write down 24 pages, of course not I was like, oh, I mean, I don't know so
so, how did what do you do though?
What do I do? I write it down or at least I did
I mean with stories and now
I I mean, I kind of do more bullet point D, but I still write
down a lot I write down and I you still write down those like when you have a specific exact punch line, you will still write it down. And then the work on stage is to make it feel Converse it when you're when you're going on a you know on a Tuesday night early set just to fuck around.
Around yeah, you're trying to just make those things that you've written conversational and then road test them basically make sure hey there's no better way to say it. Will you still make changes on the fly? If you find a funnier way to say the thing of
course. Yeah. I mean, that's what that's what all those sets are for. I mean if I was doing one like theater gig instead of Five Nights at a club or four or five shows that our club then yeah, maybe but like, you know, when you're doing that many reps you go crazy saying the exact same word, so you do make minor changes everything.
That and you'll add at at like if a tag shows it's like you're saying something even though you've written it and an idea shows that like suddenly, you know, another punch line comes and an additional tag, you'll just throw it out there and try it.
Absolutely. Yeah. I've done it a bunch. I had I had a joke.
About like like a like how the male G-spot in the but very highbrow joke here, but I did a joke about it. And I
think that was actually originally dick cavett's Joe but I remember I had a joke about it. I
think that it was like a recent joke and ice and one of the lines was it like it's like
just like not too much.
It's a hand. I was like, it's I think the ref was like and I didn't write this. It was like like like like Tostitos hint of lime that much just ahead.
And that was a like after I had a lot of lines like that. So yeah, I mean I have a lot of my new stuff is you write it, but I also didn't want to give myself the safety net of having old material fall on so I would do all new stuff on the road after my our came out and some some things fail, but then sometimes you find really you develop a new hours so much more quickly.
And and do you do the thing where like if a friend of yours has a tag for you to you as talk of do you still do that thing that a lot of comedians from friends with do or like if you here buddy years do a joke, you know, will you say hey have you thought about this and go back over them tags or people do that last now?
I don't know. I think it's just if it's your friend you do it, but I don't know if everyone wants it, but I'll do it sometimes like oh, yeah, that's a great line of you thought this yeah. I'll do that.
I've had people do it to me. Sometimes I usually it's usually I usually don't take it. I mean unless it's amazing and then I even then I'm like if it's that good I kind of don't want to know but it's not
my really is it annoying to you if somebody is an annoying to you and someone does that and gives you a tag like no. No, I'm not I think the company love know. They mean well, I've
Louis gave me a tag. Once that was like a one of the best tags ever. I used it. I mean, I mean, yeah, it's I've used I've used tags for sure, but I'd like to I like to think of it.
It myself I do one bits by comic sometimes though and I'm like sometimes all the joke. That's like right there and I'm like, what am I missing? I just need another pair of eyes on it and they do the same to me.
That's great. That's an awesome thing to do. So one thing I'm obsessed with is how much I can't stand Gatekeepers and your store, you know Gatekeepers who are like the people who decide you get to have a special you don't or the people who decide your movies going to get made your script sucks. Like I've always
felt
that these
People very often, you know, some people are really good at it. But I've always felt many people are just there to say no and I love stories of people who kind of like refuse or when that game is played on them play a different game. So, can you just tell the story of how you decided to make your special and what happened? Like just tell the whole thing like sure where you thought was going to happen what your ambition was and and because you took a big risk, right? So I just would love to have you just talk it out.
Well, you know other
Comics have done what I've done but I think like not not as many who have already sold specials, you know, like I had sold my last one a Comedy Central Amy Schumer produced. I did my half hour with Comedy Central with an album that I did. I did my second special with Comedy Central as well. Amy Schumer produced it which it's like talking about Gatekeepers. That's how you have to kind of circumvent the busy these days you get someone like Ed Amy's Fame level right to put their stamp to say this.
It's funny. Yeah, and so that was you know, I thought that was you know, but the frustration with that is Comedy Central has been amazing and I'm so grateful for every opportunity. They've given me but unfortunately not a lot of people watch cable anymore. And you know, I got buried it just they all get buried these specials if they're not on Netflix or you know on a streaming device that people watch you know, so that was pretty painful to put out something I was proud of and then
And then just be like, wow. It didn't really make a huge impact on the road until I just illegally cut up the clips myself and started sharing them and I was like, wow, that's helping me. How is this working and be it's so I mean, everything is backward now,
right? I mean you would cut up your special and put it on your Instagram because it was before Tick-Tock, right? So you put it on your Instagram. I put it on
Instagram and yeah, it was that's how people saw it. You know, I get people I had way more people following me just based off cliffs. Unfortunately. I think the only
French of I mean, they're not quite as invested as if they'd watch the full special someone who see me for two minutes is not as investor. Someone who watched me for like 56, right? So that's the short. Yeah, that's the one issue with that. But I did start doing a little better on the road from that now my next hour I was even more about like, this is a more mature our I like the bits even more. I think I'm you know, you continue to grow a little bit as a human and as a comic and I liked I
I really was happy with this hour. I saved the closure. They wanted me to do it in my last Comedy Central special and I'm like, so why so I can give you an hour 10 and you are 42 minutes right makes no sense. So I held onto it and I kept tweaking it and I'm so glad I held onto it
and that's
the white knight story which is the end of it. I started it's amazing. I started trying to tell a true story. I started trying to tell you the
end of that story true the end of that story is true
is the only untrue part where he reaches out because I guess need an ending, but sure.
And it's just like that. No real ending would have been a satisfying
as but you've so wait you've never heard from have did he contact you after that special aired? Yeah. No. No, he didn't he contacted me
the night after like here that was true. I can't find the email but it's completely true. His name was Joshua.
So that's all we're no. No, but I'm saying has he contacted you since the spout since since you've now told that story on the internet has he
contacted? No, he hasn't which is a bummer amazing, but it would have been it would be a great. That'd be a great story there. But so anyway,
E way. Yeah,
I'm feeling
pretty good about this hour. I'm telling my age and I'm like man. This is really killing on the road. I think it's my best stuff and she said well, why don't we run it at The Comedy Cellar will run it in LA for all the exact people and I said great. Let's do it. I do that goes great. Do it comedy Central's there and they're like, we can't buy it because we don't they had like four specials a year now in the public of less starting a minute and they they already picked them so they were like, it's
We really liked it. But we can't do it with you know is a nice rejection HBO kind of similar shit where they were like, they kind of tease me a little they were kind of like we're in not we're in but like we're really interested and then it was like three weeks and they weren't they passed which was it was so painful. Remember I was with Stavros right after pod. Don't lie when I got there and I was he could just see me sink and he like gave me a hug and
it's just sad that feeling and then and that herc's I was like, yeah, I could see this
being an HBO.
Thing I told a tale and he goes he goes. Yeah, you don't have enough of a
story and then so then I'm
in La Netflix Amazon blah blah blah and we did we do the tap dance. I do it at Dynasty typewriter sells out quickly amazing show. I'm so I'm so happy with how it went nothing and then my agent I'm back in New York. She goes you got to go to La one more time. I refuse to believe that you can't sell this hour and I said fuck it. Let's do it. So I go back out there selling out again and again,
Nothing, and I was just like just so I felt so defeated. I felt like what can I it's like not about like
did you know they were wrong Sam did you know they were wrong and in my heart, but then of course you have sell I mean isn't it normal to have
self-doubt? So yeah, I there was
part of all those things compete for me those things compete with each other but then over time it sorts out and I know they're wrong or I know they're right in a way. So you knew you knew I have a really good hour and I'm watching people's reactions and like this is the best I can do and my friends think it's funny so
So like yeah, so then what's the next step? What's the next
step? Well, I just was really hurt and I told my age and I said I'm going to shoot myself. I refuse to to wait on these people because I know it's ready and I'm sick of the jokes and I'd like to move on. I think I think when you hold onto jokes too long, it's that's almost an admission of defeat, you know, because you're just telling jokes you're I mean, I'm not an actor. I'm a comic I want I want to move on. I want to continue to grow as a comic and I think the longer you
Overcook that our the the worse it is so I mean to a degree you want to run it, but you don't want to overcook it. So
yeah, I whatever the old got there's different ways. Like if you did it for five years, then it would be amazing in a different way. But yes, I agree with you you want to be done? So what happened? So you say that your agent and what does she say? She
said I think that's a good idea. She kind of just supported it and and credit to her for you know for
Believing in something that made her zero money, right? So
then but you put up will you put up the money yourself or you raised
it? I put it up myself and then I but it also I made it all back pretty quickly because we charge the door at the seller to sold-out shows. So that helped the people I work with took a pay cut. My the editor was my buddy from Tulane who I'm still good friends with a Lon the director was Jason cats who who shot a Sizzle reel for me.
Norman and Joe less we tried to sell a special the three of us and it's funny. We all released YouTube specials this year because we all got
rejected. Yeah, keep want to watch him watch chose yet. But you know, it's so funny. It's incredible marks money to but Joe's I can't wait to watch Joe
special. They're both great. You'll love me. I mean it was painful it was painful, but then it was also so it was so I was moved that these people wanted to be involved at a reduced rate. I use my set designer for my last special who's like a big time.
Set designer who is like yeah, of course, I'll be involved. Fuck it. Like I don't even pay me. I want to just help having some incredible guy. I don't want to say his name here because I don't want other Comics to bother him. Right but because he's already did me a solid but he's an amazing dude, and then
you know,
it kind of just came together and we shot in 4k and the attempt to still sell it because that's I guess that would all the streamers and everything were buying and you know, we got a pass.
And but then Comedy Central is like we'll put it on our will pay you to put it on our YouTube channel. You retain rights in a few years to put it. We just found it on YouTube. You still on the audios? I got an audio deal and all that and then yeah, so they put it up and you know, it's like I think 3.6 million views and just a few months. So I'm grateful for the
know. It's unbelievable and it's cheap. I mean had I would imagine it's changed like although you're not on the road now, but I would imagine that it has changed your
Alright, I don't know about it's hard to tell right because you feel the love at the shows on the
road. But I got a lot of messages a lot of comics. I admired wrote me a nice note about it that that meant a ton that means so much and you know you saying you you liked it means a lot, you know, I mean,
well, it really was stepped up and you did the thing like you did the thing you you didn't wait for The Gatekeepers. You filmed it yourself, you found the way to get it up on YouTube through Comedy Central basically yourself and now like 4 million people.
At 3 7 you can say 4 million 4 million people have watched this which only happens when people tell their friends to watch it and people share it on social media and and it's in this day and age that's the way that we decide who our favorite comedians are and you're a lot of people's favorite comedian now well and and you just the problem, you
know road is like the road is really where you feel it and I was like now I put this out for the road and that kind of but then I'm also like holy shit. I could have been I could have been sitting on this if I didn't force us out so that would have killed me so
So I mean to all the comics that were about to film something and this happened. Holy. I mean I can't imagine how frustrating that is.
No, of course the worst we'll listen dude. We're at our our here and I mean, there's so much more I wanted to ask you but this has been great. I'm so glad people got to hear your story. So glad that you're in a good spot. Are you in LA or New York?
I'm in New York right now
and are you and Taylor still living together? No. Well, I mean,
I mean she's in LA, but I'm planning on going back.
As some bright we use people should follow Sam on all sorts of social media you get great peeks into his life and really funny stuff and clips that are cut up that he's probably not allowed contractually to cut up and follow him on Twitter too. And really one of the funniest guys and a guy I always love talking to Sam morale. Thanks for doing this great talking to you right and people you can find me at Brian koppelman on Twitter sandwich or Twitter.
It's just Sam. Morril Mor IL. All right, great.
Hey
everybody. I will see you next time.
