Hello everyone, and welcome back to 33 voices. This is always a highlight of my week. I am Moab do. He is the one and only Kapil Gupta and we get an opportunity to spend a half hour or so talking about life's most important truths. And as always, who knows where the conversation will end. So great to be with you
man. Very well. I want to
talk to you about something that I've been contemplating for a little while and
I want you to assume with me for a moment that you have a world-class College athlete, who played college football for a prominent institution, and that 21, 22 year. Old young man is used to winning. In fact, the ones I'm thinking about, I think probably lost two games in four years or their career. They then get drafted by crappy NFL teams, and then they start to lose. And then they lose.
Some more and then you see their damn performance tank. What happens?
Well, as I would say that, that's person dependent. I don't think that always necessarily happens. So, you know, I don't think it's a matter of reverse engineering it and assuming that, that's the outcome it. So it's all personal base some people because, you know, sort of become that and others are there. Don't stand for it or look to be Trader or whatever it is and others maybe even Step Up.
Because because it's an environment in which they're giving given an opening. So I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think it's Universal that way, but team sports provide obviously many more elements and many more variables than individual sports.
So I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about a couple of NFL teams who have been bad for a long time and they continue to draft because of the draft.
Daughter of football, these very talented, kids from really great schools. I'm thinking about teams like the Giant and the Jets and the Redskins and and then these team these players show up if the teams continue to lose and along with that their performance doesn't, you know, they're not carrying a team to Victory. So when you say it's person dependent, I get it, but does he does? He environment have that much?
Effect on these kids because they're contractually bound to that team for a while,
you know, once again, I think it's this is sort of Monday Monday morning quarterbacking, you know, anything. It's sort of a sort of though it sort of a well. I don't know. I think it's more intriguing to actually talk to a person and figure out what's really happening as opposed to saying. Well naturally, if you goes to a losing team, he's going to lose and, and sort of take that and run with it.
I think it's much more intriguing to figure out what is really going on inside of a person than it is to make, you know, so called these judgments and these these Universal sort of rules. So
let me reframe the question, this way, if you are, if you are working with somebody who is a winner in all aspects of life, right? And he or she goes to a losing environment, that that is just
Known whether it's in sports or business. How do you help that person? Not let the environment, pollute her
mind. Well, it depends what they want. You know, everything everyone does, you know, everyone is predisposed to doing and pursuing that which is their greatest desire. So you don't desire in order to act your actions, determine your desires.
So it's, you know, it really it's a multifactorial thing. It really depends upon what the person really wants. And I think it's, I think it's short-sighted simply to say well that person is in a losing environment and they want to win, it's deeper than that.
So would like, give me an example of it being deeper than that. If I, if I'm if I'm a young man and, you know, I haven't lost but two or three games in four or five years, and probably very little in high school.
And then in my first NFL season, I'm going to be part of a team that's going to lose 15 games.
Well, I think that when someone first comes into, you know, the major leagues, so to speak and professional side of things. It isn't just about winning. I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a big learning curve. There's a lot of things that that person's trying to get used to and acclimated to. And so, in any environment I person naturally
Finds his or her own Niche. And here's our own place. It's always related to self image and when that person settles down in that environment, then he will naturally. When all the dust settles. He will find out for himself, if that's something that he can environment and we can which you can live in, which you can flourish or which he actually succumbs to, and that isn't necessarily a conscious decision. It really is based upon the person's DNA.
Nay and what it is that he truly wants. So I don't think it's as black and white as the way that you're posing it.
If one of those kids were you're one of your boys and, you know, part of the evolution of playing a team sport, not that golf is in a team sport, maybe in college, it is, but and they go in one of these whether it's NFL or NHL or Major League Baseball or something, and they go into an environment that you know,
Going in these teams have lost perpetually.
I don't think it's about winning and losing. I think that on some level, everything is an individual sport. I think it's team from the outside, but on the inside and the inside the human being its individual. So a person could be on a losing team, but that person could Excel and by excelling as an individual on that losing team, even even if by individual, that also
Means that the way that he passes in the way that he makes other players in the team better. That's those are still individual skills and traits. And so, in that sense, he increases his brand. So I don't, I don't think it's just about raising the trophy. I would say that, I would say that the team obfuscates and complicates everything. I think really, at the end of the day, everything is an individual sport.
Well, this is a topic.
The fascinates me. And that's why I wanted to, you know, when I and I heard a lot of these kids over the weekend knowing you and I were going to connect talk about. Hey, I'm not used to losing. I'm not used to losing, I'm not used to losing
now. Yeah, that's that's a very immature and short-sighted view are immature and and and it really. But then again, they've been taught to be immature. I think that if you look at every facet of society, particularly,
Early in the World of Sports it, you know, the depth of things is in the Nuance of things, just like anywhere else. It's never really examined. It isn't just about the Xs. And the O's, it isn't just about the winning and losing, it is about winning and losing for the coaches. It is about winning and losing for the management because at the end of the day, what is a professional sports team? It says, it's a hot dog sale at the end of the day, at the end of the day. It's what it is. So it's not about, it's an entertainment. So
While the player doesn't view it as that nor should he a player that's his livelihood. That's his, that's his art. That's his craft. And that's very appropriate to look at that way. But for the people at the top, it's it's bottom line. So I don't think that the way that they look at it. I think it would be a mistake for the players to look at it the same way that management looks at it
so perfectly, then too.
One of your signature and sites that I think people who've listened to our conversations get which is the whole idea and the notion of giving yourself permission to be great. Ironically. That's one of the areas that I get the most questions or the most aha's from people from. So when you have somebody who's 22, 23, 24, whatever, who truly feels like he or she can carry a team on their shoulders and can take.
Losing organization and tournament to a winning organization. What is that? DNA look like? Like what do you look for in somebody where you say? Hey that person can make a real
difference. Well, I guess the quiet sort of confidence. A a, you know, it's all the regular things, right? It's a, it's someone who doesn't follow the crowd, someone who wasn't really there for the socialization, you know, someone who was really focused on
They really want. It's those kind of things.
So, when you talk about this idea of permission, what does it take for somebody to be truthful about? You know what, I'm done with the past. I truly want to give myself permission to be the best in the world at what I do when when you're talking with somebody, do you feel that that's sincere.
Well, I would say, I would say the question is the opposite. The question is
What is it? That's preventing you.
What is it? That's preventing me.
Yes, and not only what is this preventing you more specifically. What is it? That's always prevented you from being class my mind for? Well, that's that's another thing, answer that. That's that's that can be said about anything specifically one. It is not about it is not about you know, looking for what it is. That one needs.
He's it's much more about looking at the barriers. Okay, so so so, so, you know, you, you know, very well inside of you right now. If I held a gun to your head, I'm not going to play your game. I'm not going to buy whatever you say. Okay, that's your mind. So when you give the answer my mind, that's your mind saying my mind so that we don't have to go any further, and I can give you some five-step plan. That'll that'll fix everything. Okay? That's what I'm not going to fall for. What?
I'm saying to you is right. Now as we sit here right now, you know exactly the things that are preventing you and you don't want to look at those things in order to shove those things under the carpet. You want to give you on me to give you a camouflage and that camouflage that you're asking for me is a prescription because you are simply looking for anything and everything that you can occupy yourself with that will prevent you.
From having to look at the barriers.
So so let me throw out some of the barriers, right? And and help me think through it fear
to General. You're right. Now what you're doing is fishing. Okay. So right now you're tossing me, a bone in order to make me think that you are. In fact speaking the truth and looking at your barriers so that I will succumb and say okay that's good enough. Now, I will give you the prescription that you seek.
So let's talk about fear of failure.
I don't think it's fear of failure. I would say it's more maybe fear of success.
Okay, let's talk on
that. So and that goes back to self image
which is what you wrote about this week or two weeks ago or whenever I have some questions about that. But
yes a person always defaults to his defaults. So a person always becomes what he believed himself to be so you can you can Behavior, modify, whatever. You
Want, right? You can bring the whole, you know coaching gang in the self-improvement Fanatics, right? And the wrong motivational speakers and you can hire a big old Hall and you can just fill them with all this motivation. And at the end of the day, when they walk out of that Hall, they will default by the time, they walk to their car
and that's why I'm
asking. So so what I'm at, what I'm asking, what I'm what I'm saying to you is what you will become is who you believe yourself to be.
What you will become is what you cannot stop yourself from becoming what you will achieve are the things that you cannot help. But achieve what you will accomplish are the things that you cannot live without accomplishing. So at the end of the day, your story, your fate, your destiny, where you will go. It's already been written.
And it's been written by, who you believe yourself to be. So you acting it out, is just a formality. There is no amount of behavior, modification or raw, but I can fill you with to become the world's greatest, if your self-image and your DNA is not that of someone who must be great. Who must be the greatest in the world. Who would I put a GoPro on?
With follows him around the house every single day that that I become convinced by all the things that he does, that are very convincing to anyone who watches the video footage that this person is completely obsessed by becoming that. So, everything in your life is already written, and you don't have to look at that from the standpoint of Fate, but from the standpoint of who you are, on the inside, that is who you will become.
So what's the process then? So one of the things that you talked about in the discourse that you write about self-image is that most of us are never enough in our own
eyes? No, no, no one, no one is enough in their own eyes. When you when you view yourself as a personality, when you view yourself as this self called John or Joe. You cannot be enough. You can raw yourself into believing that
But you won't genuinely believe it.
So, where does that deficiency come from
that? Well, the self can never be whole. You will always have deficiencies. You will always have insecurities. You will always have fears, a person, a person who was conscious of his self such as self-consciousness, is a person who will always have insecurities about that self.
So, a person is at his best when he isn't aware of himself. So when he is playing a sport or an instrument, or whatever it is, for a brief period of time when he loses his concept of self and he is completely lost in that art. He is at his best. And at that moment he has no deficiencies. And the reason that he doesn't is because at that moment he has no sense.
So you can't, you can't ban date a self enough to make it whole and this is why the self improvement in the self-development and the spirituality in the motivation. That's why all of these multi-billion dollar Industries are all founded upon a completely false concept. Therefore. It's a house of cards
it is. Do you personally have days where your mind is?
Is just a constant stream of negative
thoughts. Well, negative versus positive is irrelevant. Most of if you if you but why is
it relevant aren't, don't you feel? There's some thoughts that are more negative than they are positive.
So when you go outside and you go to a landfill, is there some garbage that's that's more clean than other garbage. Probably not know. There are there isn't muddy garbage there in human feces and then other garbage.
It which is relatively clean and like a like a nice perfectly clean bottle. That's empty. Maybe. Okay, the same thing with thoughts. So if you would never go to a landfill and compare cleanliness versus dirt, then it's the same thing with the thoughts. Human Bill beings believe that the mind and the intellect are something to be proud of and this false notion is what they're fed by Society.
So you
Don't you don't think
that it doesn't matter what I think? Would it only the only side? No. No, they don't. The only significance here is that you are convinced of the opposite and that isn't right or wrong.
I'm really not convinced of the opposite, but that's so that's why I asked the question. So when so maybe I should take the negative stream out of it and just say a constant stream of thoughts, maybe an abnormal.
Binders of the mind. Is that the mind is a barking,
dog. When a dog doesn't stop barking during the course of an hour or two hours. Like what do you do?
Nothing? You're not going to stop the Mind from barking. And if you try to, you'll be basically trying to bail water out of a sinking boat with a teacup for the rest of your life because the only reason that you're trying to stop the Mind from barking is a reason why it's barking in the first place. Hmm. Do you understand? Do you, did you?
Understand
that I do. That's why I hesitated. Yeah.
Okay. What what did you understand, their?
I understood that the route that the moment that I put my conscious effort to stopping whatever is going on in my mind, right? Whether it's negative or positive. That's the actual that that whole recognition and movement towards trying to change something is what's causing it when I suggest ignore it, so why
so no, well you
Totally destroyed it when you said just ignore it and move on because that itself is an action and that will lead you right back like a U-turn to the mind. So the only reason that someone wants to stop the Mind from barking is because they wish to feel the pleasure of Peace. The reason that the mind is barking in the first place is because they wish to fulfill the pleasure of Desire. So the the the search for happiness and pleasure.
Measure is the most fruitless search of a human life and it is a single most critical reason why a human being lives in suffering
because we're searching for have for constantly trying to seek happiness.
Well, you don't even have to be constant. But yes, but you're right, it is constant happiness, and pleasure. Both the same. Yeah,
and away from the other that the opposite. Sure. Right. The fear and all of
Yes, they chase for pleasure and in a version for pain and and if you hear that and you think to yourself the moment that you think to yourself that yes, I must stop doing that, you're done because you're doing it again because the only reason that you would even want to stop searching for pleasure and stop running from pain.
Is because you want to happiness, you want, you want, once again, the same thing.
When you think about someone you wrote about the beautiful discourse that you wrote about self-image. Did you consider your own self image at all when you were writing?
Oh, how do we know about the world? How do we know about any human being? We know what to our self? So the person who examines himself to the utmost degree is the person who knows?
All human beings,
so can you give me a contrast between what Kapil gupta's self-image was 10 years ago and perhaps what it is
now. Well, I don't think it's a matter of comparing self-images. I think it's much more a what matures over time is seriousness and sincerity and as we grow older, we begin to see the
The Folly of things. Depending upon how one is wired. We begin to see the foolishness in the silliness of of the things that happen in life and, you know, moving through life and all the events that happen in life and how we think about things. And so as we begin to look into those things and see the foolishness of it, and to see the holes and the falsehoods of them.
Then we begin to or at least I began to examine the nature of the self, so it wasn't about me having a better self. It was examining into the nature of what a human being really is and what are the source of all problems. So it's much more a movement away from self and that in the direction of you know, this is going to come out the wrong way, but selflessness, but has nothing to do with what you believe.
To be selflessness because there's nothing but self and selflessness and the in the in the traditional meaning of selflessness.
And are you are you at a point now where there is no
self-image, you know, it's really yeah. I mean it's a fair question, but I think that for me even to answer it would be to fall for a trap. Because if I were to say that
No, it wasn't you. You aren't posing it as a trap, but it is a trap for me to walk into it because if I say yes, I have no self, you know, that is a contradiction in terms. So let us just be sincere and honest and leave it at. I am devoted to examining the falsehoods of the self and to see the outer boundaries of those falsehoods.
It's in order to discover truth.
And then when when that happens is that when the dependency on others and the dependency on your team and society and all just doesn't, you don't give a damn about it
anymore. Laughing. I think I think when you begin to see through things and you begin to see around corners and you begin to see the falsehood in things that you used to believe. We're true, then
Things that you see as false automatically, Begin to Fall Away, there is no added step of making them fall away. So there is no real Detachment. It is that when you see that something is false One automatically disengages not by any conscious effort, but just because it's false in the second that it's noted to be false and 1, deeply seeks truth, then.
In the disengagement happens all by itself. So everything happens by itself anything that you must do by volition and an intentional effort and interference is is false.
So you don't call the work that you're doing on your self effort like no man. No
self. Absolutely not absolutely not. It's it's sort of it sort of like moving through a jungle and you're not trying to build anything.
You're simply looking at the jungle, You're simply trying to figure out how the jungle is arranged and if these trees are real, or not, and if you pass your hand through the trunk, does your hand pass through, or does it get caught in the trunk? So it really is an examination and exploration, which was completely and utterly, not prescriptive, prescriptive is not a conscious observing or an intentional. I will watch my thoughts.
All those things are in a complete moving towards prescription and moving away from truth. So, absolutely not. I would not call it effort. I would not call it practice by any
means. Do you consciously sit down every day?
And no, I don't consciously do anything. It just where I live. Like, if you if you live in Los Angeles, do you consciously? Try to live in Los Angeles every day. It's just where you live. It's where you it's, it's
It's your home. If there's never, it's never not there. There's no, I will take time out from my schedule. Now, to sit there. There is no schedule. This is all that exists for me and the and and there's no reason I mean I even hesitate saying that because there's no reason to like think that's great or anything. It's nothing. It's we are you. No, I'm not a good person because I happen to be devoted to discovering the truth about life that
Wasn't my
choice. But I know a whole lot of people who follow you who would like to discover that truth, who look at it as really hard work. Maybe that's the problem.
Well, that is the problem. But looking at that being the problem is also the problem. Because as soon as you say that's the problem, then you're going to try to move away from that problem. And as soon as you do your wit into a well,
what's a better way to look at it.
Well is to be genuine is that is to is to
I understand that you will never go anywhere else. But where you are, you want to be here or you're standing here and you want to be over there? Well, the only way to get over there is by understanding where you first are, and human beings are not taught that they are taught to run over there. And to do this, this this and this to get over their whole, damn, what they do. This this this and this, it just gets them to this this, this and this. So, wherever wherever you go, you can only go from
Are you
are? Yeah, and I guess people have to really understand that so they get so they can go there. I get asked a lot about your private discourses and and the difference between what you share with the public and what you share privately. And the point is are you approaching different topics with your private discourses or you approaching the same topics from a deeper
perspective?
Well the topics I write about in the private discourses. I published the title and maybe even an excerpt sometimes on Twitter. So they're there for everyone to see at least the title is or do the expert extract, but I don't like there's no, you know, a constant exposure to Truth for whoever we are.
A constant exposure to truth or to untruth. That is what seeps into you. And so it really is about what you are. Exposed taking that to another level. It is what you are exposed to inside yourself. So the sincerity within yourself as for the search that you are on, that is the thing which speaks to you and it's not good or bad.
So, you are constantly exposed to that search, whatever your search is. And that's what shapes you, that's where you live. So, whatever I write about it is a completely speaking in tongues sort of, you know, so called The Flow, State sort of, writing of no mind, which comes about a topic which just comes through the page.
No, like system to it.
And do you finish close of the book and publish it? Or do you go back and relook at some of the things that you've done?
No as soon as well. I mean, in many ways. I'm not the one who writes it. It just gets written through my fingers somehow and so when it's written, it goes out. Is there a scent
when you make a decision, whether it's a decision to publish something or whether it's a decision about your life or your
Business, when do you know you've made a really good
decision? That's a very good question. I don't think it's about having the decision be very good. I don't think that there is a right or wrong decision about anything. I think, I think it really is. Where do you want to go? And is what is the motivation behind what you did in line with where you want to go? So if for instance, you're genuinely seeking truth.
Then you will genuinely, have your motivations be aligned with publishing that which comes from your bones without being interfered with by, you know, anything that is. That is, that is not truth. So not, not not tainted by, for instance. If I was to go back and edit things to make them sound better. You know, that would that would
Troy the that would destroy what it is that I'm most seeking, which is to truly genuinely, allow the deepest things to come out, untouched and raw so that. So that frankly, I may learn. So I think it's much more about the alignment of that as opposed to the alignment of your decisions, with right or wrong or good or bad.
So, when you're working with leaders and
They've got big decisions that they've got to make and they ask you for advice. It's all does it always do you take them in that direction to help them see that? It's not about right or wrong because sometimes that could mean somebody's livelihood.
Oh sure. Absolutely. It's always about that. It's always about taking them in the direction of Truth. Taking them in the direction of what is it that you really want. And what is it? It's never about drawing a line.
Down the page and putting, you know, positives and negatives it or benefits and losses. And it's never about the about that, you know, a lot of times most times, maybe even always, people have already decided without deciding something within them as already decided and a lot of times they ask, just for permission. They're not asking because they want to know what to do. And it's really
It would be untruth for me to say that if someone's at a fork in the road and they asked me, which way should I go? It is, it's completely disingenuous to for me to say, go that way. It makes no sense. That isn't a genuine decision. We are in many ways. Chosen. We don't really choose.
Yeah. I totally believe that, but I do that sometimes with you, even in these conversations, I do that. I
I probably have a sense of one way or the other, but it is gratifying if you get validation. How about I leave it like that. What what is that telling you about somebody? Who tells you? Hey, I'm your validation means something to me.
That means that the person looking for happiness and ego and self image, and does he say anything? What is, what is your validation have anything to do with anything, that that's just, that's just an ego
boost. It's a valid validation because it's
You're somebody that I trust. You're somebody that I
respect. Okay, let's say that. Lets say that your you made a decision to do X and then you ask me. What do you think? And I said, yes, that was a great decision. So what what does that by you aside from a very short blip on the screen of Good Feeling of satisfaction, whatever it is. That's going to be gone by by dinnertime. So everything is irrelevant. Do you understand? See everything. Nothing means anything? So what that
you feel good that has that has no relevance. And the reason that it didn't, the reason that it has no relevance at all is because it's it's it's like wind passing in the night.
It doesn't last it doesn't stick around. So at the end of the day, it's yet another clever example of seeking pleasure reinforcing self-image. So every all things in a human life, come back down to that. It's just like in business, everything sooner or later returns to money. True. In the same thing with human beings everything sooner or later returns to happiness and self-image.
Have you ever consulted anybody when you are faced?
A really tough decision, a friend family member,
you know, here's my honest answer to you in. Time has passed, I have, and as I was doing it, I knew it was for entertainment purposes, only.
So I assume. Now you
don't, if the more the more critical, the more critical the decision, the less reason there is to consult someone because that's when it needs to be the most pure, the decision. That doesn't mean anything.
You can consult all you want, because it doesn't matter. So, once again the truth, everything is opposite.
Yeah, of course, everybody who listens to you knows that. Now you said something in this thing about self image because you brought it up here. A couple of times that a man doesn't improve himself. He only improves his self-image. Is that the constant race that you see? A lot of the people in the world doing is everybody trying to just is everything about that nowadays?
Well,
Could it not be? If this is if this is all that one knows how could it be about anything else?
So is it truth to to, to be immune from
that know that the truth, the truth lies in Desiring to know the truth and that can't be a recommendation. There are everything for good or for bad. It just
Goes back to DNA. It just does and it's not genetic DNA. It's just how someone is wired. Everything always goes back to DNA. A person who is a chaser and is always seeking happiness and has no interest in really diving deep into find the core of the issue and that that has revealed itself.
In all domains of his life, which it always does who you are always reveals itself that person is going to die like that. He just is there's nothing that can be done. Your fate is sealed by your DNA now and even if you come to the point where you have an epiphany or a realization that you truly want to walk the path of truth and you never have before that also is DNA the DNA and the seed of that DNA of
Of seeking the truth or having the Epiphany. Even that existed, you are not going to change who you are and self-improvement is a complete
sham. I'm with you on that. But when you talk about, you're not going to improve who you are. Change who you are.
Yes, that is not a message a lot. But it is not a message that anyone wants to hear. And quite frankly. I'm not here to please anyone. You don't need the last person who should believe as me, look at the evidence.
Look at the obituaries. It happens every single day. It's been happening for a millennia. You don't need to look at me and ask me what the weather is when you can open the window and look outside.
So what's what is why is there a reason to live? If I know that I'm not going to be able to change myself.
That's a person that that's a question. You should be asking yourself, but you have to have the DNA to even, ask yourself that question right now. You aren't asking that question. You're asking it out of
Out of out of a sense of outrage, it isn't real. So
it really isn't. Yeah, that's right. A sense of respect. I
think it's when a person who has the DNA will look in his in the in his mirror and he will not ask that question out of outrage. He'll ask that question sincerely. It is precisely that person who actually will seek truth not because he should but because he can't
Open. And and if you examine his life and if you examine his schooling years and if you examine previous jobs that he's had, you will always see seeds of that. You will never see some wholesale brand-new spontaneous personality. The seeds of who someone is have always been there. Like if you look at a writer the person's always been a writer even when they were small, they used to just write on the back of you know, gum wrappers. It's
Who you are has always been there. So so it I'm like I said, I'm out of here too. To ease the pain. I've no interest already won't talk to anybody. Most of what I write isn't for anyone to be honest with you. Quite frankly. I don't know why. Anybody at all, would read what? I write there's no positivity or negativity or actually you might assume it's negative if you buy the positive and negative right, but it doesn't but it doesn't matter that. It's truth. The only
Person who would be interested in the truth is the one who is genuinely seeking it. The person who enter is an interested in truth. He is seeking positivity and happiness. And that is, that is almost everyone. So I'm not sure why I have more than one follower on Twitter. It makes no sense to me and the followers go up. I, there's no one who's even who's more shocked than I am. Why are you reading what I'm writing? It has it is it is the most is Armageddon.
Just right. It's telling you that you are going to be the way you are forever. You're never going to get better. Health improvements a scam. You know, you're going to die. Why would you lie, would you listen to that? Right? Why wouldn't you put on motivational speaker or you know, we're put on nice, you know, Dalai Lama and listen to mr. Venus and enchanting and you know and quite frankly most do so. So when you ask me this question, why are we even here? What's the point of even living? Well,
What do you want me to say? It is what it is. So, either, you asked that question that's as of sincerity because you're the DNA to do so. And you ask yourself, or if you ask me. I'm just going to respond with silence when you want me to say
it again. We the people who do follow you. And I know that I speak for the ones that I know, not only appreciate what you say, but I think the most important thing is it challenges the way they look at the world a challenges the way they look at
Cells. Whether they choose to seek truth or have the DNA to seek truth or not. That's for them to decide, but that's why at least the core group of people that I talk to consistently about you and what you do in your work. That's kind of the thing that comes up. So, let me look at it from this perspective. I understand the DNA. Let's take a group of kids who were in from, from however, we want to frame it.
Aged, they don't have access to this stuff yet. Somebody wants to give them a chance and wants to expose them that. Hey, you're young, you're talented whether or not you have the DNA. Here's here's a an approach to see the world. Look at the world from truth. Don't look at the world from all the things that you here. Would you look at something like that and a group of kids like that, for example, as having the remotest of possibilities.
To change
yet to seek true. Well, well, I don't think it would be a change. I think it would be there. You would be pouring water on some seeds that might already exist. Okay. So the answer to your question is absolutely
okay. How should I start to feed them? Because I have a group like that. How should I start to water? Those seeds?
You're not going to be able to do it.
Can we expose them to some of the work that you do in little tiny glimpses or have them? I
I have feed them some of the discourses and some of them look at me and say, hey. Wow, this is amazing. But, you know, feed me, what do I do
next? So the more serious that someone is
in my health kids, I think are all under 17 or 16 or something like
that, or the more serious that someone is in guiding someone, the less, they will preach to them. The more serious than one is the less. They will answer their questions.
Because all questions will come in the form of prescription because everyone is everyone is brainwashed by Society into asking for prescriptions. So if someone asks me questions, even in the, in the private consultation, I don't answer a lot of times. There's remain silent, because nothing, I can say, I'm not going to buy into the question. If I say, yes, then that'll take you down this road. If I say, no, you'll take you down that road.
And both roads will lead to the same hell, so
the only answer was silent for somebody to frame a question where you don't go that path, or is there a way
that no? Because now you're talking about trickery right now you're talking about. Is there a way to manufacture a question? You know, what? No, what I'm saying is, you know, a genuine question when you hear it and and so as for you know, helping your group of kids, I will honestly say that the watering of the seeds will come through it.
Exposure to truth without trying to teach them, to preach them, or to answer their questions. And and when because the, you know, people who read my work isn't about me. So there's some form of alchemy that happens between the words and with whatever happens to lie inside of them. So it's between those two elements and when that happens, it happens, there's nothing for me to say, right? So it is about it is about an exposure to
The type of water that they might have the
seeds for. All right. So let me leave that one there and let me just ask you two more quick things. Are there any questions in particular that you're contemplating right now and that you're writing about that? Perhaps you haven't published.
There's all there's so much stuff. I don't I don't know where to begin. I mean, I don't know. There's just, it's just,
I don't leave wind this week that that
not us.
It's never lap time. It's never like that. It's never a menu. It's it's everything is spontaneous. So whatever comes on the private discourse. It just spontaneously arose and wasn't something that I planned to do. The question. The questions are whatever they are. They're always relating to the truth. What is the truth about this situation? What is the truth about arriving at this?
It's always, it's always about an arrival. It's always about getting to the complete indivisible nucleus of the cell.
So when a question like that arises and you don't have to give me the question, do you just start to write or do you sit on
it? I write when things arise and there's there's a desire to explore it and the writing is the exploration.
And the desire to explore opens the gates and the words come.
And then, once that's done, do you revisit a similar exploration or once you do it once that's it.
No, there's no rules. It's whatever. It's whatever arises
last question. You wrote a discourse about nothing. What is the word? Nothing mean to you?
Do you even remember, do you know definitions? Don't go anywhere Iram. I vaguely remember. I think it was called a
Discourse about nothing. Nothing like no idea what it was about. I have no clue. I don't remember. I don't remember anything about the discourse, but I do remember the title.
It had something to do with us posting photos on Twitter and Instagram and we're selling ourselves and all of that and that to you is nothing. But as I read it, I started to think. Is there something to the word? Nothing to you.
You know, I would say that it's about seeing once again and not not not forced.
The pain yourself but it's genuinely about seeing the emptiness of all things and that nothing has any significance. The ultimate truth, which will benefit no human being except maybe one and they probably don't even listen to this podcast. The ultimate truth is that there is nothing. There is no greater truth than that and the end no intellect in the world. So rules don't matter whether we will ever be.
Able to decipher that, no nothing matters. Now, there's nothing nothing, you know, everything operates according to its own Rhythm, everything operates according to its own cause and effect. And any attempt to interrupt that Rhythm and any attempt to modify the effect that was naturally occurring by a particular cause is a road to suffering.
In anxiety and failure. So it is about understanding things and it is about seeing what the rhythms are and what the patterns are instead of and, you know, a leaf rides on the surface of the river and in doing so, it assumes the power of the river. See that's intelligence. That's wisdom more than intelligence. And that's the nature following. It's rhythms. So it isn't a
about, you know, human beings are have this hammer and nail in this Brute Force mentality, where as wisdom is much more along, those along the lines of a willow tree. It's it's really going with the wind and it's really harnessing the wind as opposed to fighting it. I think that type of sensibility is one that arrives to truth
and do you feel it when if that one person a probably
Listen to this podcast of that one person is around you. Do you feel that when they're do, you feel that sense of authenticity and sincerity when they're getting to that
point? Well, you don't have to get to the point. You can tell ones DNA by the things that they say, it's a very very, very rare to encounter a person with rare DNA. And and I don't mean just that a person who's really good at golf or very good at. I mean, those are
That's there's many of those. I mean, but I'm talking about a person who is genuinely a rarity with regard to how he died sex things, how he views, things being completely opposite of how the way everyone else does it, it's very rare to run to that and when you do, it's exhilarating because you have found, you know, you found a unicorn
and have you met.
Very lightly who kind of had that impact on you.
No. No II haven't. But what often times happens is that someone will write something and it will be promising that they might be a that type of individual and then a few paragraphs later, they'll sadly deflate and if only they could have kept going so to speak, you know, if only the
You know, it's sort of like reading a, you know, a person who writes a book and they write something. And you say, oh wow, this this, you know, this person may be going along the lines of Truth and then within a page they they just they sell their soul within a page. Well, here's the five-step plan. I was just waiting for it, right? As soon as you did that you you just fell, you know, the the roof caved in the floor, fell out and everything.
Into hell. You were you were doing so well, right? You were showing such promise. You could have been the one, but then you sold out you showed your true colors, and now you have removed yourself from the as a candidate of the rare one. The people who tell the truth, the people who are like some of these ancient, very ancient like, Zen Masters who couldn't give two cents, whether you understood didn't understand could care less.
They just spoke the truth. And that is something that is that quite frankly. It is, it is beautiful. It would be to see someone like that, an encounter them because I could talk to them day and night. I know you can that, that kind of person but you just everyone's, you know, institutionalized by Society Mo.
And and when you read the stove, read things from
Like
that, you know, I really don't read much anymore. But if I do pick up a book, yes, it is along the lines of some of those rare writings of, you know, titles of, you know, the title of a book which would almost sounds absurd. But that's those are the kind of things that if I am to read that, I that I would pick up and reading for me, is, you know, it. Nothing reveals the
Truth, you know, believe me if someone if someone talked about the direct truth about things and didn't prescribe. I would read all three books. I believe me I would I would I would long for such things but it just doesn't think that you're just you know, I live and I live in the wrong era.
I can't. Yeah for sure right. You live in it. How about we leave it like that?
Right, you live in a different
era. Well, the things that I'm interested, the things that I'm interested in are are so are so completely, you know, way out there and so anti-everything, this is like, you know, I look out the window and I see, this is just this plastic society in which I'm just, just been placed here in this in this, in this, this purgatory. And it's you know, it's like
there's there's no sense of belonging to this. Every the music that I hear and the words that are spoken and the culture of sports and business and life in the neon lights and the news and the televisions on the radio. Don't listen the television own. Unless on the radio. I, you know, I live this monk-like existence in the, you know, like a Hermit staying away from everything. It's almost like a, you know, it's almost like waterboarding in a way. It's it's your place.
Into an environment to which you do not fundamentally and intrinsically belong.
But you still have to water the seeds. That are your two young boys because I know your pride and joy, right? Like, do you
those things get those seeds get watered
by them. Just observing
you. I don't think it's about, then observing anything. That's a good. Those seeds. Get watered when you yourself, are genuinely and non-prescription.
Actively on a search for truth about you and your own life and whatever if anything's going to get watered it's going to get watered through sincerity and genuineness. It's not going to get watered through prescriptions and teaching and advice and all of these things
you always you never ever cease to amaze me. Thank you.
No problem. Thank you.
