It's gonna be okay. Wow. I am exhausted. It's been a long night in Georgia. Georgia is on my mind. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of bakari sellers podcast if you hear some weariness in my voices because we've had long nights. We've been toiling in the vineyard for a long time, but finally the sun cometh in the morning.
Inning and a special thank you to my Georgia voters for giving us a senate majority. Congratulations to Senator elect us off and my Morehouse brother and one of our former guest Reverend senator-elect Raphael Warnock. There are so many people in organizations that I could give shoutouts to in Georgia for my Spelman sisters Stacey Abrams and Bianca Keaton to Mayor Bottoms in Atlanta to organizations, like the new Georgia project and fair fight and my friends over at the black voters Matter project Clift Albright and
Tasha Brown what we saw in Georgia was nothing short of amazing but also the culmination of over a decade of organizing for my friends across the Deep South. Georgia is an instructive lesson in what happens when you put the time and effort into organizing an electorate as opposed to the more traditional model of political organizing centered around candidates less invest in ourselves. And when the right candidate emerges they'll win not the other way around.
My Hope Is that after Georgia National donors the Democratic party and its campaign committees and philanthropic organization see the South for truly what it is and that's a sleeping giant if activated to work to ensure that Republicans remain a permanent minority in our national politics we also saw again the power of black voters firsthand and what happens when you give voters candidates they see themselves in and you Empower and invest in homegrown talent to do what they already know how to do
From South Carolina's role in nominating Joe Biden to Black voters across the country that help deliver the president-elect's victory to now black voters in Georgia flipping the Senate this Administration this next Congress needs to pay black voters. What they owe the check is due and now Mitch McConnell is no longer an excuse and that's that on that now onto a show with my South Carolinian fellow sister. Dr. Ebony Hilton. Today's episode is brought to you by PetSmart.
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And welcome to another episode of the bakari sellers podcast. I am exhausted because as many of you all have seen I've been pulling these out the the West Coast Prime Time hours, which is 12:00 to 3:00 a.m. And but today I wanted to have a special episode even with everything going on in Georgia with my sister from Little Africa, South Carolina. Ebony, Jade Hilton. What's going on? How are you?
Hello. My name is good. How's it going for you?
It's going good for each of our guests. We start the conversation by having them walk us through the Ark of the
their career tell me how you get from Little Africa South Carolina to now being an associate professor of anesthesiology and critical care medicine at the University of Virginia school of
medicine are high. I tell everybody is about a grace of God because honestly, I feel like there has been a stumbling on throughout the time. So I knew I wanted to be a doctor at the age of eight. My mom told me about the fact that their first child was actually a little boy that passed away when she went into preterm labor and six months.
You left for three days and passed away and that in that moment made me think I want to go into medicine so I can help people not to have that type of pain. And so yeah went to College of Charleston graduated there in 2004 and a triple Major there in science
major man. I majored in graduation. How did you triple Major
Pleasant because I had no choice because again, it's one of those things. I don't come from a medical family. So I needed to make sure that when I apply to med school.
Cool, there's no choice for for you guys to accept me, right? So yeah, I don't know what I was doing. So I triple Major and then ended up at the Medical University of South Carolina for med school residency and fellowship. And that was in Charleston South Carolina and stayed on bear in 2013 as an anesthesiologist worked there for five six years. And now I'm at the University of Virginia for the last two. So basically, I'm
I do admire.
You from afar because I took I was pretty mad when I went to Morehouse and I took biology and chemistry for majors and at the my semester being pre-med. I finished African American Studies major so that tells you how well that went.
Well, you know what in African-American studies if you look at the ratio of Health disparities, you basically did it hold med school course.
So there you go. I'm with I feel better about myself for those people who aren't as familiar with the history of the community of little Africa talk to us about that for a
bit.
Right. So little after I'm very proud of my roots little Africa is a tiny blip on the map. But if you think about it, it was actually founded by a freed slave and a Cherokee Indian and they've from the Hoff they had over 500 acres of land that they bought and I think I have so much pride because they were type of persons that in the deep south of South Carolina. Once they are free. They said when you look at our town that we're creating
You will call it little Africa because you can't change who we are. So yeah, so that's the kind of person in being a I have something through me to be on top definitely black. So yes well after so is
your also you're also an entrepreneur what is good stock Consulting and if there any potential clients listening to this episode, how can someone engaged good stop?
Yeah. So good stocking salting is a we are a racial Health disparities firm, but truly we are agnostic to Industry. And what does that mean when we think about health we
We know that health is not just what happens when you walk in. The hospital health is actually developed in the community. So what is the influence from education standpoint from Housing and Urban Development standpoint Transportation literally all the social determinants of health. And so we helped Industries to say, let's look at your your metrics. Let's look at your outcomes and determine whether or not there is a vein of equity that we need to address to help you fix the system. So people can live a healthier happier full
So it's not I mean, it sounds like you guys are meeting this moment. And the reason I brought you on the show in particular as you have a unique perspective and what we try to do is educate people about this vaccination educate people about this pandemic that we're in and your expertise is right on track with what we're doing. So, let's do a quick covid-19 vaccine one-on-one before we drill down into the vaccine rollout. Can you briefly describe the two vaccines that are currently being administered across the country?
All right, so we have Pfizer in the dirt.
Anna and actually they're both quite similar and that their mRNA vaccines and oftentimes when I'm talking about vaccines and covid vaccines in particular people are really nervous and say say, oh the scene was developed so quickly but mRNA vaccines in their selves. They actually have been in Market towards cancer and chemotherapy agents and targeting of cancerous cell prior to this. It's just that this is the first time we're using the MRNA technology to address a viral pandemic, but what what that is,
This mRNA vaccine it basically if I can give an analogy of a car and we can think of a car as being a virus. They're different pieces that you can look at this a this belongs to a car right a steering wheel a tire the vaccine what we're developing is to recognize those different pieces of that total entity. So you may have for the MRNA vaccine as far as a comparison, it looks at a spike protein, which is the outer coat.
Of the virus not the entire virus just the coat that that virus where's and so we train your body to say if you see something that looks like this code. We need you to attack it and remove it. So we give you the jeans and the coating for that coat, right and your immune system does the rest of saying hey this little code. I don't normally see this within my body. I need to form some type of response. And so now if you come into contact with someone who has covid-19 and that entire virus,
Rain that coat gets within your body your immune system is ready to fight and I think that's the distinction that we need to make the vaccine does not prevent you from getting infected for covid-19. That's not true bet that what it does. Hopefully prevent and what we're seeing in studies is that if you come into contact with that covid-19 virus that you won't have the most severe form that are leading to literally 365,000 Americans dying because your body as soon as it sees that virus
us to fight it off and that's the difference.
Well, I mean that that see that's why people come to the bakari sellers podcast for information like that because that man I just say they got different names they got different trading symbols on the stock market. Are there any notable differences between the
vaccines the main difference is just storage. So I am thinking about the differences. It's almost like Coke and Pepsi, you know, there there is
also a now you do not see now my daddy listening to it and my daddy like my daddy like he got to get that Pepsi because it's
sweeter. It said both of them.
Staying where you saw I liked that it burn me but but that being said, you know that yes, they may taste lightly different but they're both still so does the same thing with this mRNA vaccines? They are produce slightly different. They their storage is slightly different meaning that the Pfizer vaccine has to be stored at really really cold temperatures that are normal refrigerator cannot reach, but that being being said, that's really the main differences between the two between Pfizer image.
Erna the response that your body has to both of those entities really are similar that in that they are showing the same efficacy of again reducing your likelihood of getting that severe response if you get covid-19 and the same safety profile, which is
also so let me ask you this. Why do we have to get two shots?
Right? And so the clinical trials were developed to say hey if we're giving these two shots, what is the level of immunity again? What is the level of
Body being able to mount this this antibody response after the first and after the second and what we're seeing is that you have an increased response after that second dose. You can't have a responsive let you have the first stimulus to say that this is something that you need to do. And then this is this vaccine in particular what they're just seeing and the Studies have shown is that if you have that second shot you just have more protection of your body. Can you just get one shot? Yes.
Will it be as effective will it have longevity of a Sheen up of being able to boost your immune system as if you had two studies haven't been done to show that and to verify that and that's why at this point we're still sticking with the way that they trialled it in the first place
with the covid vaccine be like the flu vaccine where we get it every year or will it be a one-time thing?
Yeah, and that's the thing. We don't know and I know I know that can be frustrating for the general public to to say that we don't know but the truth of the matter is is that we
Started getting the clinical trial I don't data back in the beginning of December right and releasing this to the general public those clinical trial participants that were getting that vaccine in the summertime and in the early and mid ball, they are still tracking those persons. The matter of fact, I was speaking to one one person that was in a murder trial. She her name is Nicole. We met on Twitter, but she told me that they are now going to bring them in on Monday to continue.
To do the blood work and the testing of their labs to see how they're responding, you know, because it is all about safety at the participants and safety of the people that get the vaccine. We need to see how are your organs kind of tolerating this and if and if there's anything untoward that we need to worry about and so far it's been so good with the hundreds of thousands of persons that were participating in this clinical trials
who is actually administering the vaccine and why isn't everybody just able to go to like Walgreens and get it. I mean it will be administered through
Doctor's office or can I just go see my pharmacist or the lady who wring me out at the radius?
Right? So there's been a there's been talks a bit happening in both places at universities and hospitals but also within the community supports the pharmacies Walgreens CVS, and I think this speaks to a bigger problem though when we're looking at where those pharmacies and where those hospitals are actually located. They are predominantly in white communities and when I say predominately I mean
60 to 70% of all hospitals and all pharmacies are literally located in those predominately white communities. If you want a black or brown Community, you are two times more likely to see the closure of your hospital. Are there not being a pharmacy in general. So there's a potential there that we're going to have a disparity of access for African Americans and Hispanics in general with this rollout.
So two more questions as we do this covid vaccine 101. I mean we can just clip this this is so dope but
When we hear about mutations in the virus, what exactly does that mean and how will the vaccine guard against future
mutations? Right? So again, this is what the beautiful thing about. The MRNA vaccine is that it's looking at the coat write the code of this virus and so far the mutations that are being involved that we're seeing with these strains in South Africa. And do you K now in Florida, Colorado, California and New York doesn't involve that coat? All right, so these
Strains, although. Yes, they are definitely more infectious and we're seeing that our cases are starting to Skyrocket because of that but the vaccine and those who are vaccinated if you have that vaccine That vaccine was still recognize that mutant strain to say that a I don't care if you're their original covid-19 are this this light cousin of it? You still share that same coat and because of that same code I need to get rid of you just as well as I would get so
and I followed you on your social media.
You've been vaccinated, right?
Yes. Yes. That's
what if they have you lost any hair. Do you have a tail Zone? Can you fly I was there anything that's happened to you that we need to be aware of.
No, I you know, I was hoping any what change my voice so I can sing but no, I've been one of those I've literally had no response to my first vaccination shot was December the 15th. My second was actually yesterday and and studies show that if you are going to happen immune response, and I need to specify them this to that.
People are hearing these cases of people having headache and fevers and fatigue and muscle aches and they're thinking that's an allergic reaction. But that's not an allergic reaction. That literally is the immune response doing what the immune response is supposed to do. It's just like when you get if you do get the flu your body aches, right? And the reason why is that your white blood cells are literally going to a fight or flight mode? It is saying that there is some virus that is common within my body that I need to
Use all of my energy to fight at all which is why I usually you feel like crap. You don't feel like getting out of bed. You want to just lay down because it uses a ton of energy with this vaccine. What we are doing is we're simulating. No, we're not giving you the entire virus, but we're just giving you that coat of that virus a genetic makeup of what that code would look like so we can tell your immune system. Hey ramp up and so for certain people in the wrapping of their immune system, they may have headaches.
If they may have those fevers and chills and those muscle aches typically if it does happen 24 to 48 hours, those those two days makes up for you to be honest with you. But if those two days in them sucking means that if you come into contact with covid-19, you don't die, then they are very much worth those 48
hours. So what yeah inside out to my brother prayers up for my brother it down in Birmingham, Alabama, mayor Randall wolf and good friend of mine Morehouse, man.
They present before I was as of the taping of this episode, I believe he's still in the hospital in Birmingham. He got pneumonia as a result of covid so prayers up for mayor wolf and I want to I want to talk about the current state of the vaccine rollout. I just checked Bloomberg News back cenation rollout dashboard and other 17 million doses distributed across the country only 5 million have actually been administered. So we're talking about 30% of the vaccines that have been distributed Tennessee has used just over half of their allotted doses, but California has only used
23% of there's what's going on and why are we seeing such disparities across the states in terms of actually getting shots into people's arms.
I mean that's been the story of this entire pandemic the lack of leadership by this Administration that we have in place right now. There has to be a top-down plan and strategy and talking of how do we get these vaccines from the the companies into the hands of the providers that can actually administer it and I think it speaks highly to the
Elevation of this entire Public Health process that is failed the United States citizens. We were promised initially 20 million doses of vaccines with in December. We haven't even hit that Mark and in addition to that like you said, we haven't even administered the amount of vaccines and I think if we're looking and I would now ask all persons on these numbers do a deep dive to see what disparities is this even in those five million people that have been vaccinated because if we're looking
looking at Phase 1 a the persons that represent that grouping our health care workers and also those of nursing home facilities, but what we know is that often healthcare workers 60% of those are White's 16% are blacks about 13% Hispanics. If we're looking at nursing home facilities, it costs money to peep put people into a nursing home 78 percent of nursing home facility residents White. So we're taking a
Pandemic of where we having higher rates of infection and death for black and brown people and yet this strategy of intervention. It's not inclusive of that in that we're not making those persons a priority of who actually gets this vaccine first.
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I want to do an intersection question of of your your profession and kind of who you are and you're being so we're going to talk about Healthcare Equity just briefly. I don't know if you watch but Governor Ricketts the Nebraska governor says that undocumented workers will not be eligible to receive the covid vaccination. So on the front, you know, I always tell people that racism usually kills Black Folk, but in this case racism is killing us all talk about how this intersection of racism stupidity in the vaccinations are now meeting and what we should
About in terms of public policy,
right? And I'm so glad that you put stupidity in there because that's truly what this is what we saw when black and brown people became infected and it's particularly with our undocumented immigrants. They are a large population of those people that are literally keeping our food supply chain alive when we were having outbreaks on these farms. For instance. We had chicken farm here in Virginia and my country accent just came out but of that Poultry Farm
When there was an outbreak there and they have to shut down there is literally talks of what what are we going to do with processing and being able to get meat and food and things that we need to actually sustain ourselves as human beings and that's across the nation. So when we have people in Nebraska saying we're not going to vaccinate the very essential workers that we've been praising all these years are all these years all these months of keeping our nation to float. That is not only disrespectful. It should be Criminal.
I swear causing those persons to go out and potentially get more and more infected and their lives are compromised. But we know it's Hispanic America is only one in every six can actually work remotely from home. They are on the front line. Only one in every five African-Americans can do so and so in totality in this approach. I always say you can't have a race neutral policy,
but you were just speaking my language. I always talk about that on the show. You can't have race neutral policy to address.
Or a specific problem Tracy no
such
no such thing as rising tide lifts. All boats. Fuck that. No,
honestly, you can't you cannot say that and we have to start holding these officials responsible the very people that were saying no to mask and and open our economy and do all this are the very same people Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham Mark Rubio, Mike Pence, give her the very same people that were in the front of them line to get the vaccine.
While the people who risk their lives to keep this economy floating you're going to deny them now. It should outrage every single American when something like that is allowed to occur.
You know, one of the things I hear about all the time from these individuals that you just named explain what people mean when they use the phrase herd immunity and what percentage of Americans do we need to have the vaccine before achieving quote-unquote herd immunity because I don't really know what these words mean anymore,
right and herd immunity is basically in this cues.
That's what they're using it for as an excuse as to why as Donald Trump was quoted as saying they were okay with with young people and kids and babies being infected by this virus. If it meant that they can open our economy up again. Okay, but the total herd immunity what that means is if you have a circle of people and all those persons around you because they are vaccinated can not pick up the virus or at least their risk of having a high.
Viral load is lower than if you are in the center of that circle of people you're protected you're in that bubble. And what do I mean by high viral load?
Okay, I don't know if I should make this analogy but it's the first thing that came to my mind. So I'm going to do it
we think about dude go ahead and say it and I'll tell you if we going to edit it or not. Okay?
Okay cocaine
cocaine. That's okay. That's a that's a usable analogy guys.
Okay cocaine is never good. All right, we would never advocate for anyone to use cocaine. There's a difference if you take a little bit of cocaine or a whole bunch of cocaine the whole bunch of cocaine can kill you immediately write both of them have
Consequences, but if you get a large dose of that of that agent you can die. That's a kind of and it is not a great analogy. But that's the only way I can think to explain to people of what it means went viral load. If you get a small amount are small introduction of a virus versus a large dose of this virus if you're going around and he's Maga rallies, right and these large
crowds. So so basically what you're saying is like, you know, just, you know coming into contact with
It is like a bump in a bathroom. But you know you increase your viral load when you go to a Maga rally with no Mass that's like going out like Scarface at the end of the movie
possibly and it's not necessarily just the fact that you're meeting thousands of people that Maga rally. It could be that on Monday. I meet one person who had covid right? And before I knew it because I'm not showing any signs or symptoms on Tuesday went to bars available and I pick up covid that multiple dosing effect we do.
Like that multiple dosing effect has an impact on whether or not you're better worse or the same. We don't know and there's a again a lot in this pandemic that we're learning about covid-19. But what we do know is that there are certain person that if they get exposed to this virus, they have no symptoms at all. And then there are other people when they get exposed to this virus, they literally are dying and so in that net Spectrum, those are the unknowns are going to have to piece together and it may take literally
Years, if not decades to finally know all of the total
answers.
So I got it just a couple more questions for you. I know you one of the busiest and most in-demand. I'm glad to see you popping up on the Roland Martin Show and MSNBC, you know, there's another network over there that has has really talented people that we got to get you on I but I digress I want I want us to talk specifically to Black Folk. We've all seen the headlines around vaccine hesitancy in our people. We all know about medical racism or the bias. We see in our Healthcare delivery system and how much it shaped our complex relationship with the
The Health Care system in this country, but what are your conversations with your non-doctor family and friends who are on the fence about getting the vaccine and how do you pull them over? Let's just say I have somebody who lives with me right who raises my children with me, right who is cars in the world most beautiful person in the world who is hesitant about this vaccine to use that Loosely. What would you say?
Well, I answer in two different ways one is I addressed the fear and say I understand
Lately Tuskegee and everything that happened with Tuskegee literally Tuskegee was from 1930 to 1970 to just 10 years before I was born so my mother lived through that my grandmother the very people that I'm telling to get those vaccine they heard the headlines and and even to this day if we want to talk about Flint, Michigan, we know the government right now. We still have dirty water in Flint. We know that they're there Injustice that happen, but let me focus on Tuskegee because that's one of the things that comes up often in the discussion.
Tuskegee the problem wasn't that they gave us a medicine the problem was that they withheld in medicine. What do I mean by that what they did in Tuskegee say asked for black men. They want it black man with quote unquote bad blood and bad blood could mean anything from black people from hypertension diabetes, right? But what they were actually looking for is they wanted to find men who had syphilis and for those 40 years they studied what does syphilis do to developing body now keep in mind.
The actual cure for Syphilis was founded in 1940. So for 30 more years, even though they had a medicine that could save those people's lives. They didn't give it to these black men because they wanted to see what happened and so of that 28 black men died of syphilis. There was another hundred people that died of complications associated with it. They allow 40 wives to be infected and 19 children to be born with congenital syphilis all because they wanted to see what would happen.
Happen even though they had a cure and that's what I don't want to happen with us black people. Now. They we Medical Society. The government has been studying. Why does covid kill people all along? We finally have an intervention that can potentially prevent you from getting this virus that's in the form of this vaccine. Don't allow the government don't allow the systems in place to prevent you from being able to get that intervention to save your life because that
But if we don't get the intervention, that would be Tuskegee 2.0. The other thing I tell them I've like people is if you ever want to see if something is a good idea or not. Look at the riches of people with access to everything and see what they do and what we see is that at the first chance the people who are creating the policies the ones that are saying we're not going to give you $2,000 to keep your family afloat in this pandemic the ones that are saying open up the economy and and we've gone
Have these massless rallies because we want freedom. They were also the very first people that were in the front of the line to get a vaccine like Lindsey Graham before my 80 year old grandmother could get hers that lives in South Carolina. So so yeah follow the money follow the power and influence and see if it was so scary. Would they be the ones jumping over people to try to get that vaccine in their arms? So those are the two things
so my last my last question to you.
Just want to say thank you so much because I know you I know you are extremely busy today. But my last question to you is as we think about ebony being the Secretary of equity or the Surgeon General of the United States, whatever it is, let's say you get a call today from the president-elect about how we address that hesitancy. What are the must-haves in public education campaign and a national equitable distribution strategy for the vaccine. What are you going to do? Tell me how you're going to roll that thing
up. Well the first thing
Ours is we actually have to admit there's a problem. We have to have metrics in place that looks at and holds some type of fire to the feet to say. Hey Industries Hospital entities or local and state level Health Department's we need you to tell us along the lines of race gender it we can even get down to language from coordinates immigration status. Who are you actually offering these things to if we're going to give you these medications we need to see that Equity is at the front.
Line when we're talking about the distribution process. We see that that that has still not the case Across the Nation of even with covid cases of them reporting. Is this person black white hispanic, Asian, what are they that's very simple to be able to do. So for one that but for to like I said and you mention it, I am very big on this idea of equity needing to be not an afterthought, but the foundation of every policy that is formed of which is why I've been
been campaigning for I hope I didn't registration and and BP come on Harris take into consideration the creation of a department of equity that sits right alongside the Department of Housing and education and all the others as much money the important to this department of equity that every metric that is coming out or every policy that is coming out of those other departments. We're looking at it with the equity lens to say, how are we not thinking this through because
We did have that then we're looking at Phase 1 a of again of which the phase one a sixty percent of healthcare workers are white and 78 percent of nursing home residents are white. We would say that's not enough. We are addressing Equity at all because our black elderly people are literally being kept in their homes and also because if we're looking at the numbers of who's dying from covid-19 black people die at the same rate as white people who are attending
years older than us. So we are 55 years old dying from covid-19. We are 65 years old. I am from covid-19. We are in the nursing home yet. We're leaving before we get to the level of being a grandparent and if you're looking with the equity lens, you would have picked that up. But unfortunately they Administration that we have in tow right now Equity is an afterthought if a thought at all
well, I just want to say
What we wanted to do with this episode. We were thinking about doing a Georgia episode, but we've been talking about George a lot and we talked about it with Roland Martin the lead up, but I wanted to talk about this vaccine because I think it's important that we get it this out this information out to our community. So they at least can make an educated decision. I don't I'm not pushing people because I understand the hesitancy, but I do want them to make educated decisions so we can all be a healthier community. So with that thank you for joining me. If you if you ever need anything from me or this show. I'm just a phone call away. Thank you. Have a blessed
day. Thank you.
Have a good one.
Before I let you all go and I promised that I would always sing Before I Let Go I wanted to talk about one more thing and that Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer. Not sure if he's a fan at the Pod if he's listening, but if you all know him, make sure you share the Pod with them. He's currently 82 years old and is the oldest member of the court and one of the three remaining Democratic appointees to the court.
The conservatives have had their youth movement, and now it's time to start hours. We also know that after last night in paying what sold to Black Americans it's time for the black woman Justice that president-elect promised and we don't have to worry about Lindsey Graham as the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman to lead. The confirmation will now have Democratic Illinois Senator Dick Durbin leading the Senate Judiciary Committee. So I look forward to Justice Breyers.
Letter, which I hope come soon Valentine's Day would be nice King day would actually be better. He served admirably, but now is the time to make way for another historic first, whether that be former, North Carolina Supreme Court chief justice Sherry Beasley Howard University School of Law Professor, Danielle, Holly Walker, California Supreme Court Justice Leandra Kruger, Georgia District Court, Judge Leslie this name may sound familiar Leslie Abrams Gardener or South Carolina District Court, Judge. Michelle child's order.
DC District Court Judge can't on G Brown Jackson. It's time for black women to join the Supreme Court, and we have a plenty to choose from thank you for your service Justice Breyer, but it's time to go and that's that on that. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of bakari sellers podcast. We're going to get some rest and I'll see you on Monday.
