How We Adapt to Stress

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All right over to Elise Brian Mackenzie is the co-founder and president of the Health and Human Performance foundation and the creative director a power speed endurance, which is a company that focuses on integrating science based protocols with human performance to optimize our health.

With Brian is big on breathwork. And today we talked about breathing why it's hard to meditate and how to get better at it and how different personalities in the way. We handle stress often get in the way of us being able to just chill out Brian created an app called State a really helpful and intuitive tool for teaching us how to breathe and manage stress. I've been using it every night before I go to sleep. Brian's job may seem simple teaching us how to breathe. But as any meditator out there knows it can actually

Quite

complex so I can choose to actually be there and deal with the situation appropriately change what's going on, but I can also choose to alter my breathing which Alters the landscape of what's happening with inside my body and this gives me profound ability. This is plasticity.

Let's get right to Brian. Thanks for being

here. Thank you for having me

thrilled that Jennifer introduced us.

Oh, I'm I'm thrilled to I actually just checked up on her today. Oh really? She's breathing. I don't know. She hasn't responded yet, but she's you know, she's busy like you are

so now we're running the world when Jennifer Rudolph Walsh says to meet someone you have to meet that person. Yeah.

I don't know if you picked up on that yet. I deal with the re side of that. Oh, there you go. So but there

Are one kind of in I mean one or goswami beast

running the world and just so people know because I know we're in LA and it's so insular when we're talking about Ari, we're talking about Ari Emanuel. Yes. So how K, obviously we all know breath brass breathing yada yada. It's one of those things that's like just breathe is the most

annoying. It's a very popular thing right now. It's

popular and it's also it makes me angry. I'm like

I like I am like an immediate. Yeah, like a few. Yeah. Tell me to breathe. Yeah, but clearly here. We are right we are and this is your

work. It's yet to a large degree. Yes, but it just so we're clear and it annoys me as well. Nonetheless. I'm not somebody who just likes to hand out Lord like blanket. Oh, yeah, just breathe. Yeah, like look, there's a reason behind this and it's and it's ubiquitous because it's involved.

Everything we do so,

you know it is the thing that powers everything

right? I mean

Yes to some degree. I mean and that's that's a 5000 year old thing, you know if we look at where our history on what it where it started, you know so far. We understand, you know, yoga being the oldest movement and breath practice we know of so, why is it

because you know, we've talked about this before but meditation for me is very difficult because when I become because I'm a disordered breather and I Cry d chronic hyperventilation when

Become conscious of my breath my breath gets worse. Hmm. Is that common? And is that why I don't want to meditate

you and I are a lot alike. But from what I've picked up on, you know, I mean, we're type A so it's like well, let's do this. Now. I can do more I can tack on more and then when I think about something I overthink about it, right so that it's just that monkey brain type idea, you know like but I mean, this is what I went over in the, you know presentation earlier.

About the brain and it's like the brain operates for us we pack in more stories and more things and then there's these other systems that have been in play for like 500, you know for a long a long long time, you know, as our Evolution has happened and these are the reactive side. So when we get into The Reptilian side of things that's where the reaction starts to happen in our breath is attached to that reaction, but the interesting part about that is when we start to overthink things.

We start to interplay with that as well. And so the emotions that can be attached to those things. Then the byproduct of our reactive system, you know, like all our autonomic things heart rate, you know visual cueing that blinking like all of that like, oh I shouldn't blink that much. What do you mean? Oh now and all of a sudden I'm blinking more than I supposed to and so now I'm thinking about my breathing and I think I'm disorganized with my breathing and yeah, you know, maybe you're not maybe that's just overthinking and so that's the idea.

Idea of turning it into something that it's training. Yeah, you know, I think that's where technology comes in well for me it has I'm not reliant on technology, but I spend a lot of money a lot of my business dollars on Tech to understand what's really going on under the hood if I actually manipulate this or I do this, right and then what's the byproduct of that? Oh, I just I'm sleeping better. Like why do I feel refreshed but I'm not getting more hours of sleep, right?

I'm still getting seven hours of sleep at night. But like I feel better. Oh, this is actually having an

impact. So to back up so you your work is in teaching how to breathe and I know that there is tactical breath work. So I don't want to confuse things but that you're teaching people how to breathe in a more tactical and directed way like your training and coaching them to until it becomes habit and we're all doing this

properly true to some degree. Yeah. We're I'm

giving people principles and so I mean and and that's what we direct we design the app within mind like you could get some box breathing and there but that would be because it fit to your personality or your how you emotionally handle stress and that's largely what we're doing is looking at how you actually handle stress, right? So how does a lease handle stress and let's look at that because we've looked at enough of that to know that not everybody responds to the same patterns, right? And that was the big thing that we started connecting.

Along with CO2 tolerance, which is the reason why we're actually taking a breath and so we found that the ability to handle stress interplays with our CO2 tolerance. And then it's the stories that were telling ourselves when we start to get stressed out. So you come to work and your day gets compacted and compacted and compacted but then you go home and I know you have kids and it's like the kids are there and all of a sudden the kids start spinning out and you're like, I can't take any more the kids. In fact, it's not the kids.

Is the kids have always been the kids right? It's all this stuff. I took on that. I didn't learn how to use the things. I've got biologically setup in order to kind of chill myself out a little bit more and that's where the teaching of this stuff comes in and I don't think that people need to be reliant on an app or me coming in and saying hey, you know, like let me do a personal. Let me let me teach you how to do this. I think that could be a part of the process.

Yes, but it's is it making sense as your day goes on and you go? Oh, like I've got an opportunity everybody just exited the room or nobody's going to notice if I do this, right and I changed that literally and I just saw with a few ladies out there in less than in like a minute change their state and felt much calmer in simple exercise. Right and it's like that. We didn't need to program that into anything that can just be a

a part of hey, I just got in my car and I'm in traffic and I can just control my breathing right now.

Yeah, the apps called State the intuitive breathwork app and it's always four exercises right that are 5 to 6 minutes

long roughly just depends on how well your adapted to

stress right and and then you respond to it until tell it whether it's too hard to easy etcetera and it continues to evolve so and so I know when we met

Sort of explained and I'm curious if this is it. This is really true that people are and maybe it's type A type B are people parasympathetic dominant or sympathetic dominant. Is that a real thing? That is a very real

thing. So what is that? There's variations in that as well. So here and this is the easiest thing. Like I just I just wrote about this the other day and put this out so taipei's or sympathetic dominant. People are typically people who when they wake up in the morning are on.

On come on ready to go. Then there's the people who are kind of like a diesel engine and they need a lot of warming up in order to get going don't really like to get out of bed want to stay in bed. Sleep longer could sleep longer versus that brains on like sympathetic dominant, right? I react to things really quickly where the more parasympathetic dominant think about things a little longer, you know, and these are these are can all be manipulated.

Move through each of these things but you start to see a pattern with whether somebody leans more towards being parasympathetic dominant or sympathetic dominant.

And so you have a set point essentially but you can manage it better. So if you're extremely some parasympathetic you can move it more towards the middle.

Mmm. Oh, yeah, and this is the beauty about understanding who you are and how you operate. So if I'm somebody who's sympathetic dominant like I should probably do something in the morning that probably keeps

me a little bit calmer and less reactive so that my day doesn't start off like being shot out of a cannon and then I end up at 12:00 or 1:00 or 2:00 o'clock fallen off of a cliff right right where the parasympathetic dominant person would be able to do something that brings them up more like hey, I do something that up regulates me. And so I do some faster type breathing exercises or even hey a cold shower like that will literally get somebody's engine running pretty

quickly. Yeah. No, it's super interesting to

Because when we were talking about this with Kiki or Wellness director you were who is more parasympathetic and essentially you were like if you are anxious or your mind is full. Can you sleep and she was like, yeah. Meanwhile like I can pull an all-nighter easily by letting my mind go wild. So in those instances, that's when I use the

app, correct? Yeah. Okay, it would be better to use it before like before any of

Those instances really happen, but those are actually can be critical points. Right? And so if we can actually just set up the training to where it's like. Hey, I know when I wake up in the morning I should do this them feel alert, and I know at night I should do this fall asleep. And let's just use those two as a very easy way of understanding this because there's four but those are two of the most impactful ones and those two things will literally set up a chain reaction that within a couple of weeks out of

Habit alone becomes an instant thing. It's why we go to the gym to exercise. Well, if I continue to exercise and I continue to do these things I should be having responses. Like I should be sitting up better because I'm working out her building muscle or I'm going to yoga and I'm becoming more flexible and I feel like I'm in better position like these are this is why we actually go and do these things is so that we can actually have a reaction to that that in the moment we can default right and so I don't want to

good people in thinking I want a like. Oh and like I just gotta go put on the app, but the app is the training. Mmm. So that in the moment you can actually do those

things and you can respond in a better

way 100% including re-include. Hey, I mean, he's literally been I mean the most powerful advocate for what I've done and you've even felt the those, you know affects the true Jennifer and I

found I fixed my or I didn't fix but I improved my co

To yes, although I will say for everyone who's downloading the app. There is no wrong answer I learned because I tried to redo all of my answers and the presence of Brian and he was like, this is what did you guys say? This should be one of the questions to determine whether your parasympathetic or sympathetic if you're asking am I answering these right? Yes or precisely about your

sympathetic dominant your type a right questioning everything. I'm doing dialing it in. Yes.

Welcome back to Brian and just a second.

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Back to my chat with Brian Mackenzie the other really interesting thing that you told me in the process of retraining my breath, which has been in many ways easier than I expected. So in my disordered and I don't know if it's just because of my disordered

breathing. I love that. You're just like I'm so disordered. I'm

so sorry, but you told me when I workout which is typically at high intensity dance cardio that for 30 days. I need to keep my mouth shut and

Only breathe through my nose and I that was so intimidating to me that I didn't go for two weeks just to make it extra

challenging.

So I was like, let me see if I can make myself pass out, but I actually got through the class fairly comfortably but it's hard. It was put me into more of a meditative State because I had a consciously keep my mouth shut. So do we tend to over breathe with our mouths? Is that what you're retraining?

Yeah, you're retraining a few things. Yes, that's one.

To from an energy standpoint, you're not burning through more sugar. You're actually staying more aerobically dominant. So it's not that you're not using sugar because glucose is a main component of aerobic function but so is fat utilization. And so you're keeping that dial turn more towards fat burning. The other part of that is is if you're just nasal breathing is you're leaning more towards parasympathetic dominance here actually.

More aware of what is going on? Because when we're stressed out, you can't actually start to make good this even the science is sound on this like you can actually make good decisions you default to habitual things and responses when we're overloaded and so this is where we start to be able to make a whole bunch of different plays and it's not that it's all about nasal breathing because it's not there's a time and a place for mouth-breathing but it's hey, let's get

you accustomed to this for the next 30 days develop you aerobically from an energy standpoint more robustly. Right? And then also that's going to have an effect on your day because you're actually staying calmer the parasympathetic side of things and then it makes it easier to keep your mouth shut throughout the day, especially when we're not talking

right right. It's so hard for me to keep my mouth shut if you haven't noticed.

But so anyone theoretically could benefit from trying to exercise with their mouth shut

anyone. Yes. Yes, for sure

30 days.

We typically use 30 days as three to four weeks is what we typically use with with anybody as like a base then it moves into hey, here's how mouth breathing starts to work and how we start to function at more intensity and understanding where those intense where that intensity happens.

So there is a time and a place for math, but

Teething 100% Okay. Yes 100 percent interesting. Yeah, what

are the other common things that you observe? I know you work with Elite athletes CEOs Etc. But what are other bad habits that we've many of us have developed when it comes to breath holding our breath.

Yeah holding the breath that I mean, that's a big one. It's just as it's just like especially with sleep. I'm gonna sleep apnea. That's yeah that's holding your breath. And so

Your sleep and your unconscious you've got triggers that will have you breathing when your oxygen levels are too low versus when we're conscious. It's largely just because of carbon dioxide. Mmm. So when you're asleep and people who deal with sleep apnea, that's because they're holding their breath or in stressful situations people hold their breath which you know, like think plane turbulence. I don't like flying, you know, and you hold your breath and then all of a sudden it's right and then I go into rapid Fast Fire.

You know breathing and oh, that's just going to upregulate me too. So now I'm spinning myself out so that from the physiological side of things. Now, I'm starting to actually ask create this Cascade of events that are happening versus let's just take I don't like flying as an example and whatever the context of that is in the brain or you know what I'm telling myself. I don't like flying. I'm claustrophobic whatever it is, right and then there's turbulence and it's like oh,

Shit, I'm in a situation and now I'm reacting with my breathing. I'm setting off the physiology now. I'm setting off physiological mechanisms that come into play that hey hormones react there's a Cascade of events that start to happen to we're learning how to control your breathing in a ruts those physiological processes so that now I'm not having that Cascade of events happen and then I can start to work on which I am of sound mind is the most important part but the context of the story that I'm telling myself

So this is the Frankel story of like hey, this is the place between stimulus and response. This is choice. This is an opportunity for me to grow and change what's going on breathing fits into that choice. So does changing the story or the scenario in which I'm in and I don't want to be in you know, we as human beings have that choice of even though I may not like the situation I'm in I can change the context of the story empathize with the person who might be upset or there's a

Russian going on or the flying and something, you know, I don't like the flying. Well, what can I tell myself differently about this story right now? That could change

that. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. No and I like things that are practical and I think that the way you've architected this is extremely practical and is the idea like that and I know you guys work with the military like you work with big groups the military Etc. Is it like you're giving people the tools if we all practice

enough like you're retraining your gate right that then you do it habitually.

Yes, you'll default. I mean, that's literally my day is it kind of sounds insane, but it's not it's just I was never aware of this, you know, seven eight years ago or I just wasn't aware of it and now it's like I'm so aware of it that my day revolves around it. So I go from one interviewer one thing to the next and it's what do I do in between there?

Well, I'm controlling my breathing when I can and I'm doing that in a way that I know affects me and I feel those shifts and you know, this is something innate in us, but we've lost contact who because of how we've adapted our lives and there's nothing wrong with that. It's let's learn let's just learn and that's what we're moving away from is learning where animals do this instinctively right? Like lions hunting Antelope. And this is one of the stories we tell but it's like

no matter what happens in that scenario a lion wants to be there at the antelope doesn't right. Right. We have the choice of actually wanting to be in any situation. We want in today's life, right like here in Santa Monica. Like we're not in the line and the antelope situation like that's not happening a whole lot right so I can choose to actually be there and deal with the situation appropriately change what's going on, but I can also choose to alter my breathing which

Alters the landscape of what's happening with inside my body and this gives me profound ability. This is plasticity. That is this is exactly what plasticity is in changing how the brain works and I we are of sound mind that breathing is one of those things that just falls into place that becomes automatic, right?

Yeah. No, I think it is but obviously it it's part of the autonomic nervous system, but I think it often can run us, right? Yeah. So are we don't

oh how to control it.

Yeah. Well the tail ends up wagging the dog, right? Yep.

And obviously there are major having a i disordered breathing just going to keep saying it but you know, it took me years to Grapple with it. My dad's a pulmonologist and the sense that there would be real it's not amazing. But there were real physiological implications to it emergency room. You know, I went to a Cardiologist. I saw I do have subtle asthma so inhalers like

Maybe we can change that. I don't I can change

that. I'm a good place right now. But yeah, those physiological changes are real and it's also one of the perfect it's that perfect example of mind-body that marriage and how inextricably they're linked and how it expresses as much as we want to say. Oh, it's not anxiety. So it's not like my mind can't make me sick. It's a perfect. I think expression of that theoretically were

To be able to control our anxiety which is kind of a fallacy.

But well, I've got a number of scientists. It'll say, you know anxieties just overshooting the mark right and being, you know, we've lost our ability on how to bring ourselves back and so we get caught up and a lot of the things that are going, you know being said in the media what's going out and oh my god, I've got this disorder and it's like we all deal with anxiety. We all we all go through these things. It's these are just opportunities to go.

Oh, oh, oh, I've overshot this Mark a bit. Maybe it's time to change something and I don't think breathing is the answer to that. I think it creates a physiological interlude into hey, I can slow things down or speed them up depending upon what I want and I can re interact with the context of what's going on in the story. I'm telling myself in order to make everything. Okay, you know, it's just an odd.

Trinity to grow it's just an opportunity to learn and that's where I think we've moved away from and trying to learn from things and so going from one stressful situation to another without that ability to actually go. Hey, I can just take a minute and slow down my breathing right now and then go into what I got to go do and you literally just bought yourself a way into leaning in distress because it's not going anywhere it's going to be there. So it's a part of nature.

It's a it's a stress and adaptation our

nature right now. It makes sense. And I think you know listening to you talk about how reactive you can be. I mean, we're we sort of run on our emotions right run on our emotions and reactions and let those be just sort of a lack of rigor. Yeah and controlling

ourselves. Yeah. I mean I've had to do a lot of work I was I've been I've been a

Reactive person my entire life. I mean, I know you can't tell

ya. What is this a across your knuckles? I'm scared.

I'm scared. I've done a profound amount of work to understand this in a way that allowed me to be able to communicate it and it was important. You know, I mean, so a year this you don't know when it's going to hit you like you don't know the most important points. It's going to hit you and so literally a year ago.

I was playing with my nephews and we were playing tag on a jungle gym and I ran up a ladder and didn't see a bar up top at about 8 feet up and I went directly into the top of my skull with it and it compressed my spine and I pinched my spinal cord and I went lights out and fell from eight feet up and landed on the ground and I was paralyzed from the neck down. And the first thing that came to me when I woke up was you need to control your breathing.

Because of your breathing gets out of control that's going to set off a bunch of reactions. That's going to let your brain your mind get away from you and start to create trauma around this situation and you may be paralyzed the rest of your life and that's going to have a huge impact on everybody in your life. That's how important breathing has been in my life. Even though I've dealt with things like, oh, hey trauma as a kid or whatever, you know, like all of that I got to deal with and

Stand and use breathing in order to play the context of those stories and get through them. But the reality is it's like we all can grow from that stuff. We can change that stuff but in the moment when stuff hits you and you don't know what's going to happen and obviously I'm not paralyzed anymore and like yeah ever you. How long were you paralyzed for

minutes hours

days my arms and hands came back in about 5-10 minutes, but it took my legs about 24 no 40-something hours and then

It took me about three or four weeks before I can walk almost normal. Like I would didn't look like Bambi, but I'd pinched the spinal cord pretty good. And I mean I still have numbing and stuff in my legs just from the accident. I had to have emergency surgery all that stuff like it went like it was it was serious and the concussion was the worst part though, you know, I'll be honest and that was where you know a month or two later all of a sudden depression starts to set in and I've never been depressed in my life like my voice. I've been more on the

The anxious side anxiety side, right? And so those are things you actually have to come to terms with and go. Okay. So, how do you deal with a TBI? Oh aerobic work. Okay breathing that helps with robic work. I could sit on a stationary bike and just barely ride and work on my breathing and do my breath work and literally started to see results and things change, you know, and I work through those things and it's ironically a year out. I'm fitter than I've been in 10 years. Hmm after this because I

Meted so hard to something and it changed my life in such a way that it created an opportunity and that was that thing.

We're going to take a quick break.

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And now back to today's conversation in your work with Highly Successful People whether it's athletes or see like anyone cross across Industries. Do you find that those people are preternaturally gifted in terms of their ability to control themselves or not so

much. Yes. Yeah, like like I'll use Ari has an example. Yeah, I obviously had preconceived ideas as to

How are in who are wise right? Nonetheless met him and I never met anybody who is able to turn it on and off as quick as him. Mmm. It was profound like like it was literally in a in a conversation with somebody that he's you know, kind of going off on and instantly off the phone. Hey, buddy, how are you? Whoa, I'm like, you know, he knows how to switch those things and not hold on to them now.

He does it in a very he did it in a way. That was very impressive to me. Not like hey, I'm just tossing this under the rug what just happened. It's like hey, I'm not dealing with this anymore. I'm here to go through some breath work and understand what I'm doing in this thing. Yeah, I can't hold on to this right now. I'll return back to that. Any literally was able to return back to it after we

really did Hugh, but did he carry the work through wi me in terms of maybe not yelling at people on the phone.

When the entire staff thanks you when you walk in you it's had its when re wasn't looking right like hey, we just want to say thank you. Like you have no idea how much this is impacted things here. Right and it's like wow like I didn't know I did I had no

idea but you still think his masterful and these ability to sort of compartmentalize and pull on his emotions as needed.

Yeah, and I see that

That within you know, a lot of high-level execs in this is the operator Community. You're talking Special Forces. This is professional athletes. This is you know top Executives. This is you all have very unique you've worked at a skill that you don't really understand or know how you in some do but most don't truly understand it and that it is a very very dialed in skill in order to be able to transition things and unfortunately,

We still aren't perfect. Right and we're never going to be so we're going to swerve and so we can use tools that we've got I am of sound mind. We have not tapped into what our biology is actually capable of I'm convinced of that and so when we go chasing things with technology in order to do things without totally understanding what we're fully capable of biologically

I feel like that starts to misdirect what we're doing and this is where we start to get attached to things like, oh, I've got to have my monitor on because it's telling me how many calories I burned and you know, when people tell me that I'm like, you know, a free diver can burn like a you know to 600 800 calories in an hour with a heart rate of like 50 to 60 right? Wait. What how are they doing that? Well there in the cold water so their bodies needing to adjust for that like all of these things are variables.

And understanding there's more to it than just going out and suffering or putting yourself in the pain cave in order to do things and it's not about burning calories. It's about how your body is reacting and how you're handling

stress. Yeah. No, I think women inherently know that it's not about calories because we are more complex and hormones and whatnot. So it's like we all understand that frustration of like don't tell me it's calories and calories out because it doesn't work but I

I still feel like we are at least I feel like I'm missing some of the keys to weight loss. For example, is it you know beyond making sure your hormones are where they're supposed to be but what you said about wrath is really interesting to the idea that if it's nasal, it's more person with a very sympathetic and that you're burning more fat

you're teaching your body to use the oxygen more. So the oxygen

When we inhale it gets pulled into your red blood cell via hemoglobin, which is a protein right? It's like think of it as a magnet right magnetizes it to the iron molecule inside the red blood cell in order for that oxygen molecule to be kicked off to it gets transported to be kicked off. So the mitochondria can use it you need an acid and that acid is carbon dioxide and this happens with all of us throughout the day.

When we become more CO2 tolerant more CO2 can be present in the blood that kicks off more of those oxygen molecules so that we're actually using the existing oxygen that's still in the system right versus not using all of the oxygen. So that's where we start to become more. We start to lean more towards using fat. It's not that we're not using carbohydrate. We're always using carbohydrate because

Brain, and the nervous system are dependent upon glucose. Right but the the tissue and are like our muscle tissue can use fat and it's a it's a more it's a slower process. So that's what that parasympathetic side of things leans into is more of that fat dominance production. Cool. Yeah.

So 30 days exercise with your mouths closed. Yeah retrain your