How to Raise Successful People

Hi, I'm Elise linen Chief content officer at goop my guest today known as the Godmother of Silicon Valley is Esther wojcicki will get to her in just a second. I want to say a quick thank you to our friends at the diamond producers Association who we partnered up with to bring you today's episode.

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Today is no exception. I'll let Elise fill you in on her extraordinary guest.

All right over to a lease.

Esther Regice key is the author of a book called how to raise successful people. She's also a journalism teacher and the founder of the renowned media arts program at Palo Alto High School and she has raised three extremely successful daughters one is a professor of pediatrics at the University of California San Francisco. And other is a CEO of YouTube and the third is the co-founder and CEO of 23andMe. So today, we're talking about her formula for raising mentoring and developing successful people. Some of it has to do with parenting.

And how she teaches parents to empower the children to be independent thinkers. And also how to Simply step and relax which I appreciated as a mom. But a lot of it extends Beyond parenting and involves something called trick an acronym that would jiske coined which we'll learn more about in the episode

The think we all need to think about this, you know, all the young parents in the US or actually worldwide. It's a problem everywhere. What can we do to reassure parents that the world is not

as dangerous as they see it.

All right, let's get to my conversation with Esther. Well, thank you for being here. I'm excited to meet

you all very happy to meet you and I'm excited to be here and I love your

space. I now we do have a beautiful office. Yes. I hear that. The media arts lab is Rivals it and Beauty

my would say yes, this is really beautiful every day when I go there. I thank heavens that I'm

In that space and not in that portable where I started

so I loved your book and it's funny because it's called how to raise successful people and I put it on Instagram and I just said please God let it not be to limit screen time because I feel like that's the prevailing parenting line going these days which really is a not about at all. It's about Trek and trust and all of those other things.

That's right. That's exactly right. I don't

And limiting screen time. I believe that the kids should learn to manage their phones themselves and some parents would say, oh, my kids could never do it. Well, did they

try right? No, it's true. And I love sort of reading about when other part of the book that I loved was at the beginning how you talk about your own life. And you reframe the book, which I think makes it wider than parents this idea of re parenting yourself and really taking an honest.

Look at what you want to carry forward and what's worth rejecting from the way in which you were raised.

That's absolutely right. But you have to do it on the conscious level because subconsciously everybody tends to parent the way they were parented. So if you don't make it on the conscious level if you don't try and you don't think about it, then you're just going to do the same thing and make the same mistakes, even though you as a child promised yourself, you would never be that kind of

parent. I know isn't that ironic, but what is that? Do you think it's just what lives in the suburbs?

Conscious or do you think that because we perceive ourselves as like safer as adults or having status or having a certain amount of success? We think that that's the only way to get

there. I think it lives in the subconscious. And then also were we think of ourselves as now I'm an adult and I would never do that. You know, I know better but then it's hard because you don't realize that somehow you're reliving your childhood through your child. And so you get angry when you

Probably should have a discussion instead. So that's why I say if you put it on the conscious level, I think that you'll be better off and because then you can say oh follow that acronym that actually I created trick trust respect and dependents collaboration and kindness so you can ask yourself, you know, am I trusting my child? Am I respecting their ideas? Am I giving them some Independence? If you're not then maybe you should you know rethink that and you can rethink it on the spot. It doesn't have to be

You're not writing an essay Randy. It's just spontaneous.

Right and you seem to create a lot of room for people and and acknowledging your own mistakes. You've definitely sort of pave the way for the fact that parenting is very sloppy and imperfect.

That's right, you know, so I made mistakes too, you know actually in my kids remind me about that like Mom you did this. Nope. That's not right. You said something in the book and no, it's not true. No, I'm

Remember differently so, you know all parents need to know there is no perfect parenting no matter whether you were the greatest parent or not. Your kids are always going to find something that they wish you would have done differently. Like, you know, you gave a toy to somebody else on Christmas instead of to them or you know, you were not there when they won the swim meet or there's always something and it's you never know as a parent what's going to stand

Out in their mind as something important because to you maybe it was just like inconsequential on trivial, right? So I mean for the most part I can say at least 51 percent perhaps more the things I did seem to have passed muster. Yeah. Okay.

I mean it's in you have three incredibly successful daughters and then you've also raised Legions of students. I mean how many kids have passed through your class?

Well, I think it's over.

Thousand that's bananas as crazy, isn't it? Yeah, and I hear from a lot of them, which is I mean for me it's a gift. Yeah, because I love hearing from them and hearing what they're doing and you know continuing the relationship and it's kind of funny because some of my students are from the 1980s and now their parents themselves and they write me emails about like, oh my son. He's doing the same thing. I'm making him take journalism.

And he's really happy and it's just fun for me to be part of their lives. It's a

gift. It's funny reading the book. You remind me of one of the most formative teachers and my own life who was a math teacher a Danish woman who created the school that I went to and then my childhood has some similarities with your daughter's childhood. I think I kind of grew up in this generation. I was called it the generation of benign neglect. Oh, yes, you know, I

But it was deeply resonant with me this idea of Independence and making your own van and the boredom was unacceptable. My mother was not interested in boredom.

That's right, you know, you can make your own space you can make provide your own fun and that provides gives you an opportunity to be creative and if you're always being entertained and always being taken from one activity to another

You have no opportunity to be creative because you're always scheduled. Yeah, and that's one of the things that you know parents need to remember. I know they're all really trying hard to be great parents and giving their children all these opportunities to do different things, but they probably should cut it down a bit. Yeah, and you know instead of five days of one activity after another maybe about three days or two days even and let their child come up with

Ideas that they want to

do there's so much pressure. And I think you know when I was a child when I think about my own mother, it's just not like what you would call them internal person and I feel like even at that time there was sort of the these this idea what it was to be a mom. Right and in what I perceive and now being a mom myself is that that has evolved to only become more pressure filled and when I go back to my own childhood of benign neglect and certainly

Being a rescheduled we definitely had an extra curriculars, but it was not the way that it is now, right? It's funny. I feel guilty. Like I feel like I'm doing a service to my children, but at the same time I also wonder they will be able to compete.

Well, I think you're not alone. I think a lot of people a lot of young mothers feel guilty. They don't know what to do. Yeah, and I think the best thing for them to do is just to be follow their gut

But being a good mother, you know hug your child, you know, make sure that they don't force-feed them. That's another thing that happens. Yeah, and don't give them food every time they're crying because what that does is set up a pattern that every time you're emotionally upset you want to eat right? And so you you have to remember as a parent you're setting patterns that are going to last for a lifetime. Yeah, and you just all you have to do is just be there and you know

Loving yeah, but you don't have to provide a smorgasbord of activities every day. Nobody is grading you on like all the extensive activities and like what did you do on the weekend and all these pictures you take and post on Instagram or whatever you post them. Yeah,

so I know you've written this book sort of you have three grown daughters. They obviously they have incredible achievements in terms of what they've been able to do in the workforce 23 and me and you

YouTube and you UCSF but they also seem incredibly well-rounded. I have never met any of them the hope to someday when you were parenting and they had yet to become even though they seem to be actually very high Achievers when they were children. Did you feel confident that it was all going to work out or did you have self-doubt?

You know, I did not have self-doubts once they went to school to be honest my theory and it was just a

Because I had no books to prove it and I didn't have anybody else to talk to about it. My theory was if I can teach them to be as independent as possible as early on as possible teach them so that they could protect themselves, you know, one of the things that I spent time teaching them as all the different names of plants botany. Now that sounds kind of crazy but I wanted to make sure that they knew that all the plants had names and that some plants are poisonous.

Yeah, and that you don't want to get next to the poisonous plants. I taught them how to swim early so that in case they fell into a pool, you know, they would know how to recover they watch Sesame Street, which is where they learn their letters. I never really did a letter training program, but then I would point out street signs and say, oh here's the sign of you know, this is El Camino Real and this is Stanford Avenue, and so maybe they couldn't read but they could recognize.

The signs so why did I do that? I was like, well, I want you to know where you're going and where you are and back in those days. Of course, they memorized their phone number. Hmm. Okay, say ever needed the phone number. So what what I it turned out was that I was empowering them and I didn't realize how important it was that at that at what I was doing but I realized that they were really self-confident and it was

Because they felt like they could handle their environment they felt in control and when they weren't in control and I see that in our South and some of their friends their end, they ended up sort of having temper tantrum and I think temper tantrums are a very assertive way for a child to say I want control and that I'm feeling completely left out and then I don't feel like I can manage my environment and though if you can teach them to talk about it and give them.

A sense that they have some control of their life, even though you know, maybe they're control at 18 months has you know controlling the animals in their bed, right the you get along better and you're developing this sense of autonomy and a sense of you know, I can do it which is was my

goal. Yeah, it's funny because it's and you talked a lot about this in the book and I'm so glad you bring up Steven Pinker because I love his book. It's so optimistic and it's so important to look at the data, which is the

Adjust that the world is for the most part aside from the environment and mass incarceration and issues like that that the other measures of are getting better and terms of safety Etc because of culturally we need women need support to I think in giving their children autonomy. I mean the stuff that I did as a kid riding horses like in mountain-lion country when I was little by myself or writing public

buses. We're

Was

this in Montana but it was it was culturally normal. Obviously now, I can't imagine allowing my children one. I would be shy

and well one it's illegal to be arrested.

But I think it is important to determine like to teach your kids how to be safe. And I think I was safe. But but I think culturally we need to be more supportive of parents allowing their children to have Independence and autonomy.

I agree.

I think we're too fearful. And so I know I have a friend who after reading the book decided. She was going to let her kids walk down the street in New York City to the bakery and it was literally a block away and before that she was afraid to do this and her kids are a 7 and 6 I think and you know, they just walk down the street and it was fine and she had a they had a good experience, but she was very nervous and I think that's true for most.

Parents they're afraid but if you look on the streets of New York, I was just there there's a lot of people there and everybody seems to be, you know, doing their own thing and it didn't I didn't see any well, maybe I didn't look carefully and it's any Predators lurking about Ram especially during the day and this, you know seem pretty nice. Yeah. Also, I think that the laws don't support this so there are states that have voted and laws saying that you know, you there the anti sort of free range.

And parenting laws that say no you can't leave your child and let them take a walk even a block away by themselves. And I think it's a result of social media. That's their problem while they don't promote it but they publish stories that you know bad things that happen in different parts of the world and it could be, you know, one tenth of or one hundredth of one percent of the people, but then that's a big story and you read it and they're like, oh

The world is really scary totally and it's the opposite of Steven Pinker and his philosophy and his statistics that show the world is really a much safer Place. Totally just that, you know years ago when I was growing up, I mean I walk to school for three quarters of a mile by myself when I was six nobody thought that that was unusual. No we all did and today people are just afraid to do that. And I don't know if you read that story.

In the book about let my granddaughter's go to that story.

Yeah, they were like eight or nine and they wanted to buy school supplies. And I said, oh well, who's the best expert on what to get for school? Hey, you guys are you know, I don't know because you know, I'm not in that grade. So I dropped them off at Target by themselves and they went shopping and then I said well just phone me when you're done. And then in the meantime, my daughter called me and she's like, how are the girls doing has a shopping trip like well

I just dropped them off and left them there and she's like you did what it's like yeah, so there she's like, oh my God, that's so dangerous. How could you have done that as like, you know, the last time I checked Target it look pretty safe to me. Actually. I love Target all the good things. They have there. I like all those stores. Yeah, but I think she was also caught up in the same concerns. Yeah, and you know since that time fortunately I was able to drop them.

At Stanford Shopping Center by themselves. Now I past that barrier.

Did she feel like she was in Peril than her own childhood,

you know know she was at the age of six. She was riding her bike a mile away to go to a swim club. Yeah. Exactly. No. She I think she's also been impacted by everything the media. Yeah, like we've all been impacted totally and I think we need to rethink that I think we all need to read Steven pinker's books and see that

At the world is actually a safer Place. Absolutely and and we want to empower kids and we can't Empower them as long as we are helicoptering over them and making sure actually I changed the helicopter thing a little bit to the snowplow parent, you know, they clear the way

yeah of every

Obstacle of every obstacle and then you're like, oh, yeah, you can go to the store. I've just made sure everything's clean and you know, there are no problems and you know, I mean, how do you expect kids to

And to cope with life if they're always going to be

overprotected try it and feel and to feel proud. I mean, I certainly felt good about my ability to handle a horse and saddle a horse and run wild in the woods with my brother and go to Safeway to buy myself some potato salad after school in retrospect. I can't imagine allowing my own children to do that, but it sure felt good as a child to feel like I had some control.

So you're young mother.

So the question is what can Society do to help you feel more relaxed and be able to give your child more content more freedom a sense of Independence.

I honestly feel like I could accept that if I if I load my six-year-old to take my three-year-old for a walk. I would I can't imagine that someone wouldn't drive them

home. I think he would be arrested that's part of the problem. Yeah, I think you could have

An eight-year-old take a six-year-old right? But I don't think you could have a six-year-old take a three-year-old. Right but I think even the eight-year-old with a six-year-old would raise eyebrows totally. So I mean, I think we all need to think about this, you know, all the young parents in the US or actually worldwide. It's a problem everywhere. Yeah. What can we do to reassure parents that the world is not as dangerous as they see

it right because when you talk about

Out Trek trust respect Independence compassion collaboration

collaboration and compassion are both relevant.

Yeah, and then kindness yes, but trust and independence without Freedom. It's hard to create that

it is it's really hard to create that although you can set up opportunities for trust and respect around the house and on vacations for example, or I'm just thinking

Around the house, you know, if you trust your child, for example to make their own breakfast. Most people wouldn't do that. I mean they can make their own breakfast easily by pouring cereal into a bowl rant and getting some milk of the refrigerator, but I think there's a lot of people that still feel that they need to do it make sure that their child is getting a you know, well rounded diet. Yeah. I think we need to stop this safety is MM as what I've coined at recently. We want to always make

Make sure that they're always safe and they have the best and they're always happy and the responsibility for happiness is really with the child. Yeah, you provide the opportunities for them to do a variety of activities, but then it's for them that they have to have some responsibilities

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Um Esther wojcicki. It's interesting because Beyond parenting three successful daughters, you've touched the lives of so many students write and had sort of stage interventions. I would say in terms of some of these

Some parts of Trek is that fair?

That's fair. You know, it's interesting as you say that so one of the Revolutionary things that I did was I moved the control of the class from me to the kids. So I have five editors-in-chief and they run the program and most other journalism programs. The reverse the advisor is in charge and so you have to ask how

Citing is it for kids to work for an adult? Hmm, isn't it more exciting for them to work for their peers and work together as a group and I think it is, you know, they love doing what they're doing and it's because they feel that they own the publication and they do I'm the I'm the legal adviser and I have a CO advisor Rod Satterwhite and together we basically are

The legal teachers involved in the program but the kids they do everything they assign the stories come up with a story ideas. They monitor when the pages are done that they they do it all and why do we let them do it all because it's empowering. Yeah, and then that empowerment not only goes from the journalism class to their other classes. They have a sense of well, I can do it. I'll work with my peers. I can figure it out no matter what.

Is and so that I think we need to in the schools give our students more of an opportunity to do so peer-to-peer and self-learning and all subjects including Math and Science. You know, that doesn't mean that you turn over the whole program to them. It means it just to start. How about 20% of the time let them help teach each other.

And come up with projects related to your subject. Totally. I think it's

empowering and I think it's you mention this in the book. But our whole the way that everything is modeled. We're learning somehow ends when you're 22 and less you go on for medical school or PhD or some sort of master's program like how and like we need to be lifelong Learners and how do you install that? And obviously, I think you do it by allowing people to drive the car. That's right. I love this line.

It's it's one of your students ban. Will you talk about in the book? He sort of broke a massive story local story in the paper. Yes, because this seems like the perfect everyone calls you walk. Whoa -

watch watch. Okay, it's pretty funny

and through it all watch was there never so far away that I couldn't ask her for help but never so close that I felt compelled to do. So and that seems to be sort of perfect in my mind like such a beautiful image of parenting or guiding and

way sort of this assurance to your children that you're holding the nut but that they should feel free to walk the line. Maybe that's to menacing but it's exactly right. Yeah, so

they're in charge. I'm the safety net. Yeah, and I'm there. I'm always close by and no matter what they can email me or call me or if I'm in class, you know, just talk to me or if they're doing research on a story. That was a very controversial.

All right. Yeah, I'm there to advise and to tell them you know, which way to go and I always try to give my students a lot of opportunities. I mean even in the summer now, I got a request from international newspaper that asked if I had students that wanted to write stories about international issues. It's just last week and I said sure and I sent out an email and sure enough there were like

an kids who wanted to write stories. This is a an international paper. It's great. It's called Fair Observer and they are interested in in having stories written by students and my students are thrilled to be able to do it. But that's one of the things that I try to do is like you might be 16 or 17, but I'm telling you you can do it too, you know, you can do the research you can you are empowered you can do it no matter what you don't have to wait around.

At 25 you can do it.

Now. One thing that I think is also really interesting and it's this Paradigm that you're destroying and I think mothers like my mother mother were as well, which is this idea that everything needs to be so effortful and I know I think various points in the book you talk about some of your peers particularly maybe earlier on in your career before this method that you are attempting was proven calling you essentially like so hands off that you're lazy.

Z or probably in your parenting people accused you I've no idea of being lazy something. I hold against myself because I'm tend to not be all over my kids. But I feel like that's another really problematic model that we have in our society. That's like you have to micromanage. You have to be like if you are not then you are not pitiful but not learning.

You're not doing your duty.

Yeah, you're not doing your

Absolutely wrong because when you're doing that what you're when you're micromanaging what you're doing is disempowering your child because they feel that they need you in order to do something and I always wanted my children to realize that they could do it on their own and if they needed help I was always there. I was always a safety net and the same thing in school. I'm always the safety net or Mico advisor. He's always there but they are in charge.

And and that that sense all you have to do is feel in charge in one area of your life and then it spreads to other areas. It's like if I can do it here I can do it somewhere else. Yeah, it's really important for parents to realize that being lazy for them or like not planning some activity for them on a Saturday morning is not a bad thing. Let them plan let them spend the morning doing whatever they want to do.

It doesn't have to be some organized activity with The Playdate, you know going to some fancy place and I think a lot of parents a lot of parents put that pressure on themselves. Right? And what I'm trying to do is say that, you know, maybe you can do it a little bit but he should cut back, you know and give kids an opportunity to be to do what they want to do. Let them do some research themselves, you know, they all know how to be online. You know that right? So let them let them.

Um do some research about what it is that they would like to do this weekend. You know, what are the activities in their area? You don't even have to tell them how to do it. They'll figure it out on the that phone and ball. So just give them that opportunity. But right now we always think we're in charge. Yeah and all those one of the things I wanted to say and my classes are very large 60 to 70 kids per class and that basically prevents me from micromanaging. I can't you can't micromanage that

Kids then possible and I think that it would be great if teachers realize that giving kids some Independence in the class and you have maybe a bigger class. It's okay. The kids can learn you. You know your it's not like the scaffolding is gone. It's not like the structure is missing. It's just that within that structure. They have more autonomy.

Yeah this alternative school that I went to through eighth grade that this Danish woman started.

We had rights and responsibilities and we hadn't there were no rules and we'd call Peters by their first names and your there was a certain amount of accountability built around these rights and responsibilities, which were really privileges. Right? And I it reminds me of that moment in your class that you talked about at the beginning when you were being surveilled by the principal. Oh my God, you're not controlling your classroom and then making your students complicit.

And turning towards the front of the room whenever the principal came in. That's right. Yeah, but I can imagine as a student how liberating and fun that would be because it feels like and you would know better but that in the wake of in the face of trying to be controlled right by your parent or teacher children have probably have two responses, right you either Rebel or you implode right and neither seems great.

Ones who implode that's more of like the tiger. Mom performance model, right just you're operating out of fear of disappointing your parents and losing their attachment. Right? How do you calm parents who are understandably very stressed about their child achieving what maybe they've achieved or surpassing their own achievement.

So one of the things I do and I xeroxed at Chapter 3 of David and Goliath

By Malcolm Gladwell, I advise all parents to read that. It's called Big Fish Little Pond versus big pond little fish. So what that basically means is it better for your child to be in a fancy Ivy League school where they're actually at the bottom of the Heap. They're a little fish or is it better for them to be in a school? That's not as well known where the big fish. Well the research shows.

That the best place for them to be is be the big fish in a little Pond and so all the parents that are frantic and pushing themselves. They have to stop and ask like, why are they doing that? And what are they doing? And how does that make their child feel because how you feel about yourself is the key to your success and your happiness in life, if you always are checking left and right and making sure that everybody else.

Thinks that what you're doing is good. What about you? Aren't you thinking about what you think is good. Why are you doing what they want you to do as opposed to what you want to do. So what I do, I have like a little can talk. Guess they're after all these years about that. I try to help parents who are concerned because their child did not get into an Ivy League or their child did not get to be editor-in-chief or the child, you know, somehow has

As I like, you know, honestly, they're going to be just fine one of the ways that they're going to be fine as if you believe in them. I mean, that's what James Franco said when he wrote the introduction to my first book moonshots and education. He said one of the things that I did was that I believed in his dreams as well. I believed he could accomplish his dreams and I didn't set up his dreams he set them up but then

Then I believed in him and he wanted to be an actor. So all those parents out there. I wonder how would they feel if they heard their child wanted to be an actor? I think most of them would be panic-stricken right? But it's important to believe in whatever your child wants to do, you know provide us not hurtful. They're not going to hurt themselves. They're not going to hurt Society. It's not it's not dangerous. It's not illegal is not against the law.

Then you know whatever if they want to be a marine biologist, you know, whatever they want to be, you know, see whether or not you can't support them. They want to be a musician. Of course, you know, I think it probably the same reaction to being a actor the answer is like, oh do you want to try something else? But but you know, they might try to be an actor for a while and not be very good at it or at a

Ian and not be very good they'll come to their own conclusion, but what's great is that they tried it. Yeah, I mean in James is case not only did he try it. He's wildly successful right? He's a great actor. He's just a Renaissance guy. He's very good at

everything and you I think in the book you you say that when it came to your own kids and that my parents were the same way. It was just important that they do something.

Oh, yeah, they have to do something. Yeah. I mean they can't just sit home and do nothing that's not allowed.

No, I don't care whether they're babysitting like one of my daughter's dad or you know, if they have a job another one of my daughter's she applied for a job during the summer and she ended up being in charge of all the garbage trucks and Palo Alto and you know, I thought that was good, you know logistical training. I don't care just something. Yeah, but sitting home watching TV or playing games or whatever that is that is not something that is not pulling your weight in the world in some

way. Yeah my

Six-year-old wants to be a YouTube

influencer. Well, you know what? I mean to tell you your you six-year-old could be a YouTube influencer at a much younger age than you ever

imagined. I know just what I'm waiting for him to be discovered amazing tours of our

house. I want you to know some of the most amazing videos I have seen on YouTube have been done by little kids. I know

honestly, I'm not crushing his dream at this point.

No, I mean one of the kids I met

Brazil it's a little girl. She does a cooking show and she sets up the whole Kitchen in her house and does and then has recordings herself cooking and it's so cute. She does it in Portuguese and then she does the whole thing in English and I was like my God and she was like nine. I was really impressed. I think that those are the kinds of things that if your kid wants to do that kind of it doesn't hurt anybody if anything it it's great shows creativity.

T critical thinking,

you know what I know and I think I liked I know strangely in some ways Tech figures not prominently in the book and part because it's like part of the fabric of Our Lives now and I do think what was your family vacation right where you just allow the kids to set the limits and they

were incredibly strict. Yeah. So actually we've done that since that time have that was a vacation. We took a Napa with all the kids and there were at that time.