Seth Godin - 11/17/20

So I have a question for you. How far would you go for a friend? Give me a ride to the airport share half your sandwich with them. How about donating? A kidney Tony winner? Annaleigh Ashford may just be that kind of friend for silicon Valley's Thomas middleditch in the new original series from Chuck Lorre be positive

be positive coming this Thursday.

At 8:30 7:30 central on CBS. Hey, this is the moment. I'm Brian koppelman. Thanks for listening. This is as big a treat as I can have on the podcast. Today's guest is the most frequent guest on the moment. One of my closest friends favorite people to talk to creative hero mentor.

Auntie ladies and gentlemen, Seth Godin. Hi,

Seth Brian. I gotta tell you when you say the moment. It's a trigger for me it triggers possibility and it pushes me to dig in deeper and I often listen to the Pod just for the first 30 seconds and I have to go back to something. I just need to hear you say that so thank you for joining me today.

So X I wouldn't have a podcast if it weren't for conversations you and I had before I started it. However many

Years ago and I'm especially thrilled today because your book The Practice has just come out and is already a massive bestseller and and more than just being a best seller. I know you're already getting notes and letters and emails and tweets, even though you don't see your tweets from people telling you how much this book has affected them and how much this book has helped provide them forward and how understood they felt by the

Person writing it and I had the pleasure of reading the book in a couple of different forms, and I just love it and I find it so useful and I was so touched that by the at the end of it you mentioned that you felt like it was in some way a response to or inspired by conversations you and I have had on here and that's awesome man. What a what a what a great thing knowing that I'm

You know, I've been reading you for so long and that somehow what we talk about stays in your mind and enough that you wrestle with it enough that that this kind of thing can happen out of

it. Yeah. I'm actually a little overcome if it weren't for you. There'd be no book if it weren't for the moment. There'd be no book. I meant what I said about you raising my game. So I'm in your debt.

All right, let's get into it for everybody here. I have a bunch of stuff and I have a bunch of stuff that we haven't talked about.

No said that I just want to say one other sort of personal thing even though you hate the personal stuff. Generally which is getting you know, you and I have seen eachother alot over this pandemic on zoom and then socially distance them person and it's just I'll just say it here because we talked on here so much. I mean getting to see you and getting you know you and I had some

we've kind of ridden this thing out together in certain ways and I just want to say, you know, your your friendship and your counsel and the fact that

You know you give me purpose sometimes in that sometimes you'll come to me with a question and that kind of thing is rare and and I just want to publicly say

thanks. Thank you, Brian.

Alright, let's talk about the following. Let's talk about the I've been thinking about a bunch of stuff anticipating this one thing. I've been thinking about a lot and it applies during the pandemic but it applies to all the creative stuff you talked about in the book is

the idea of the Long

And what I find myself wrestling with sometimes and I hear people wrestling with

How to keep the Long Haul in mind without becoming dispirited by the fact of it and I heard you talk about chunking and stuff in the past, but I'm not just talking about in the you know on a specific project. I'm talking about a life of trying to do a hard thing. We're dealing with all the vagaries that might come your way.

Okay. Let's dive in I have to begin by dividing between Hobbies.

Professions we are not going to talk about Hobbies too much today hobbies are important. Everyone should have them hobbies are about authenticity and personal satisfaction. You shouldn't do your hobby for someone else and you shouldn't try to sell your hobby or look for Market acceptance for your hobby because that's why it's your hobby. But if you want to be a professional it means that you are making a promise to someone else putting yourself on the hook showing up and saying,

And I made this for you and there are lots and lots and lots of ways to do that. You can do it by being completely subservient to the audience. You can do it by being Arrogant with the audience because ultimately it serves them because some people will choose to follow you as you go on this journey. And so when you talk about the Long Haul and being dispirited, I think we have to decode what's not happening for you in the short run that's making you dispirited as you

On this long journey because we do need a cycle with the marketplace to keep going but often we measure the wrong thing.

And what do we measure what's the wrong thing to

measure well, we might measure whether our agent smiles when they see us we might measure how many likes we got for something we put on some piece of social media. We might measure how many followers we have our how big the advance was on the last project we did.

Okay. Well, this is great. This is great. You just okay. So another way to look at the agent smiling at us is is something we've talked to Helen your wife who's this incredible owner-operator of a group of bakeries?

And what it made me think about is if I mean, she gets the her bakeries the by the way Bakery and she gets wonderful Yelp reviews, but if there's even a Yelp review that's not five stars. I've seen it take a toll and on a lot of people and that's the kind of thing right you're trying to do something for the Long Haul and then something happens in the short run that you can't control.

And sometimes it might make you feel like there's no point or like well, this thing could actually disrupt my way to the succeeding on the Long Haul and it balancing how much to respond in the Instant versus how much to keep your eye on where you're going is tricky. How do you how do you disambiguate that

stuff? Yeah bingo. So my David Chang story, which he may not remember when Momofuku first.

And they weren't busy on Saturdays at noon. They hadn't become famous yet and the family and I used to go into the city for lunch and we'd sit at the counter. It's not a very big place and I don't eat meat and I would say to the person working the grill love the Brussels sprouts. Can I have the buses Sprouts without the bacon on them? And that's a win-win because they don't have to pay for the bacon and I get to eat the Brussels sprouts.

And four weeks in a row of this is delicious and the fifth week. I'm pretty sure was David behind the grill, but I'm not sure I ordered them and he turns to me and he says we make them with the bacon because we like them with the bacon and that's the kind of restaurant. We are we get that you're a vegetarian. We really appreciate your support, but there's a restaurant Three Doors Down and somebody else runs. That's way more friendly to vegetarians. Why don't you start eating there instead?

And that was the day that at least for me David Chang became a success because he was able to say it's not for you. He was able to do it with respect and dignity and generosity. There's someone over there who will serve you better than we can serve you because we don't want to become the kind of restaurant that has to compromise for every person who walks in the door

and and what if you're not someone with as much agency is Dave who owns a business and is doing that what if you're someone who has a good new ideas

Yeah, and you're working for someone else and they don't respond to it. You're trying to serve them. You're also trying to serve holistically the whole thing. You know, how do you then get up the next day and come up with the net because so much what your books about is being able to do the work each day in the way you define the work, you know and

And there are so many roadblocks that could put up and and I think in a time like this these roadblocks can seem

insurmountable. Oh, yeah, cuz it's all fraud. We're standing on, you know thin ice with quick stand underneath and it's raining out and in that moment, we come to believe that Sheltering through the storm is all the tan offer. So I think it's very important to acknowledge. The moment that we are in and say In This Moment conditions are non ideal.

It's also worth remembering that it's when conditions are non ideal that almost every single creative breakthrough happens because creative breakthroughs only occur. When what was working isn't working anymore and it's in those shifts, you know in your businesses, you know shifting from film to television or radio to TV in those moments. You need to create a breakthrough and life was not easy for somebody who was in a dying medium when another medium started take up the slack and I get

It but if you just weather out the storm that's insufficient, but I want to shift gears because you made a really good point about what if the client the boss the people you're here to serve. Don't get the joke. They don't like what you brought them. And I think it would be really useful. I've been saving this conversation to have with you to talk about genre or as the late great. Alex Trebek said many many times I can even say wrong. Yeah exactly.

People who are creatives bristle at the idea of genre because they think it has something to do with generic. It has nothing to do with generic. It's the opposite of generic genre means that you understand your part in the chain in the process in the market. Well enough to make something magical that still rhymes with what came before you've done the reading you respect the audience enough.

That you can't just show up and say this is like nothing you've ever seen or heard before it actually is where it belongs and one of the things that you and Dave do so beautifully and have from your very first film is you understand what has come before there is no Nook or cranny that is unexplored. And then you put something on top of it that blows people away, but if you didn't have a genre you wouldn't be able to go forward so lots of times

I'll show up and go. Hey boss. Hey Market, I got this great idea. And then when the market says em, they blame the market. When what they really should realize is that they didn't understand the genre they were in they didn't understand how big the box was and use the box as a lever as opposed to a trap.

Let's that's all I understand everything you're saying and it's great you explicate that amazingly well in the book complete with a name check to me, but which I appreciate it a great deal.

But let's talk about the emotional side of that because in our private conversations, we talked about the emotional side a lot and the emotional side meaning

You get you know, I think a lot about the fact that for a while you weren't writing books because as you've said on here and in other places it there was paint attached to it. And you said if you can find a way for it to have utility in the market and then now you're back to writing books, which you now see is something that it's not just for you. It's for everybody. We need your books. But can you just talk about the emotion how to excel it is, I guess what I want you to talk about how have you learned to accelerate the emotional cycle from the

the from the grappling with the rejection and feeling bad and feeling thwarted to getting to the other side of it where you're producing the work and ideating and changing and making the thing better again, you know, there are tools I know that you use there are things you think about so, can you just talk a little bit about the rip it how to make that cycle happen

So I wrote something a bunch of years ago. That wasn't true and I have worked to make it true and I'm still not as good at it as I want to be but it is super useful and I think it's essential for any creative who doesn't count on a Super Lucky streak to have in their Arsenal and it's we have to figure out how to detach from the outcome while we are doing the work so I can remember word.

Word the rejection letters from 30 years ago and the slights and the things that didn't go right despite. How hard ya I had worked to make a thing what it could be and yeah, I was a wreck because I was attached to the outcome. I thought I had a good reason to be attached to the outcome, which is I was broke and I wasn't going to be able to keep doing the work.

Unless somebody got the joke and so each rejection cut it hurt particularly when it was personalized by people who were dealing with something. I couldn't see at the time and over the years. I have figured out that my work gets dramatically better and my life gets better when I do the work simply the work merely the work.

Disconnecting from the outcome and the blog is help me with that enormously because there is no outcome from the blog. I don't have comments. I just recently took off The Last Vestige of stars and thumbs up and all that other stuff. I don't read what people write about it on Twitter. So I write a blog post it is what it is and I don't keep score because the act of keeping score wasn't fuel.

It was instead slowing me down. It was holding me back. Now. That doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to the market. It doesn't mean we can ignore the person we are here for but it means that if while we are creating it, we are Imagining the standing ovation imagining that there will be zero criticism. We will end up ruining the work because we will ruin it in service of everyone's sort of liking it.

That's a hundred percent true. It's one of those there's no there's no air between our positions. But but how do you man I need you to talk a little more about how you reconcile that with something. That's throughout your work when which is the difference between as you started with the Hobby and work is it's for somebody so how do you and I want to talk more about how to turn a hobby into the workgroup something I think about a lot with the songwriting, but how do you

Do both things meaning how do you do the work detached from result?

and then also have to

keep changing it till you land at the Target, right? So how do you because you know, there is an audience that or there is a client base that's going to respond.

Right? So I think I mostly backed into it, but I'm thinking about 1986 and I know I did part of it on purpose which is we have to be really clear about what enough is and we have to be really clear about who exactly

For him so a bunch of years ago. I got a phone call. Would I like to audition for this new show? It's going to be on in a year and a half. It's called Shark Tank. Would I be willing to be the judge? Who's a jerk? And it's TV, it's ABC. You'll be famous. You'll have all the things that everyone supposed to want and with no hesitation. I said, I don't want to be that because if that means I have to be a jerk to

to people who are trying really hard count me out when I got into the book business. I had a chance to go into the film business and I decided to stick in the book business because the people I knew because I didn't know you from the film business. We're playing by a different set of rules and keeping score in a different way and I didn't want to please them. I liked the idea of pleasing the kind of person who I was having to please in the book business who was keeping score of a different.

Of metrics. So when you pick your audience you pick your future and you don't get the right to pick the audience you want and expect them to behave the way you want them to they're going to behave the way they behave.

And how do you reconcile that? So yes, I agree again agreed. But I guess what I'm asking is what trick to you use personally so that you're aware because you're aware of it. You're where you're publishing a book you're doing a bunch of stuff. You you would like anyone would want to have the audience read it you want it to land with those people yet when you're working on it you want to divorce yourself from it? So, is there a moment in the process when you're doing the work that then you you take the time to then in an in an interregnum of sorts to

Then I think about what the feedback might be and then go back into the work again. I mean, what is that process like that goes from sort of the most purely creative spot to the spot that's going to present something to the

world. Okay. So I'm I don't believe that there's such a thing as a purely creative spot. I think we're constantly reverse engineering based on the understood but not necessarily vocalized limits of what we're working with when I started in the

book business. I didn't understand what those constraints were. And so I made things that had my fingerprints all over them that no one would publish and I understood after a year of failing that if no one published my work it didn't matter whether my fingerprints were on it or not because no one was going to see it. And so I shifted to a generous posture that said first which gatekeeper am I going to get this through that will enable me?

To eventually end up in front of a reader who will benefit from this. I'm not writing this for me. I'm not writing this to show off. I am writing this because I can turn a light on for that person, but it's a bank shot because first I got to get it through there.

So how does that synthesize with I just for a practical purpose. Shut us that synthesized with when you're then writing you're not thinking about that audience. Is it because you've decided on the concept, you know the boxer in so then you're free when you're

right. No. No, I'm totally thinking about my audience. I'm not willing.

Killing my audience to act in a certain way. I have made the best empathic decisions. I can about their state about whom than their desires and their fears and if they don't get the joke, okay.

But first I had to decide who that group was and make some assertions about what they needed to hear. I'm wrong a lot. But while I am doing it, I am consistent to my assertions and if I'm wrong, I'm fully wrong.

Right, I get that. It's sort of like, you know having way would always say he was he was competing against dead authors, and I've thought about that a lot and part of what I think it might mean is he was writing in a way that he thought those people and people who like those people would respond to and he wasn't going to give a fuck about anything else if he if he was able to do the work on that level. He would find an audience basically.

Well, we're dancing around something here. And I think what we're dancing around is fear. Yes, and there are lots of ways to rationalize through the fear, but we should just name it which is writer's block as you and I have talked to about ad infinitum isn't real and it's real at the same time. It's just misnamed fear fear of bad writing fear of ridicule feeler fear of being seen as a fraud and an imposter.

Yes,

and the way we do generous important creative work is not by making the fear go away because it cannot go away if we're doing important generous work when we let the work in the fear comes with it. And so I view it as how would I feel if I got tired while running a marathon I would not be ashamed of it. I would be proud of it. And so if I'm not feeling afraid when I'm writing my

Work. I know I am not doing my best work.

Yeah, me too. I think that's exactly right.

The pandemic has caused an immeasurable loss of lives and livelihoods. It shut down economies and force billions of us to change the way we live but in the midst of the upheaval in new Futures being etched out and everyday decisions, like whether we decide to ride a bike or take the bus and in bigger ones, like whether countries decide to take on more debt or not the world as you'll know it is a new podcast about how those decisions might play out five in-depth conversations between journalists.

Experts on how covid might change the nature of work cities higher education and the economy the world as you'll know it is supported by Aventine a nonprofit Research Institute whose aim is to invest in work that explores how today's decisions will affect the way we live work and experience life in the years and decades to come.

The world is you'll know it is available now on Apple podcasts Spotify and wherever you get your favorite podcasts, I wrote down this word monolith when you were talking about these rejections and there's something in almost like the collective unconscious.

That this fear of facing a kind of rejection that doesn't acknowledge or see you. Yep is so painful that will do almost anything to avoid it.

You know what? You know what I mean?

Well is the alternative rejection that does see us?

I

think so. Right a rejection that says I yeah I much prefer I would much prefer rejection this I actually see what you tried to do. I get what you tried to do. Here's why it doesn't exactly work. Yeah, as opposed to this sort of like I don't know why I'm being rich in food, which is what you get so much in the world now just laugh because people put stuff out there and there's no response it so correct to avoid

what I want from a colleague and a co-conspirator is

That someone who is good enough insightful enough in professional enough to act as if if I was the kind of person who believed X Y and Z I would have liked what you did here. But I am asserting that the audience doesn't do that. So they went like this let's decode that bit by bit and I have found that the number of people who can have that conversation is Tiny and the chances that they are in very close familial or professional proximity.

You are very low. And so I seek them out and real breakthroughs in my career have happened like so Bob dwarf who is one of the inventors of the Harvey Wallbanger drink, which is a great trivia question was an important publicist for years and years and he saw me give a talk 18 years ago and he came up to me at the end of my talk. This was early in my bit about using no words on my slides.

And he gave me three pieces of feedback that I have used every single time since then it was priceless. It was worth a million dollars the three pieces of feedback since then a million people to million people have seen me give talks and no one's given

me

right because it's hard to do and it requires a level of generosity and bravery and Care Plus domain knowledge. So, you know, one of the cool things about your industry is theirs

More of it there than in most places, but there's still an enormous number of frauds who are pretending they know what's going on, but they're just guarding their luck and I think it's important to respect those people but also ignore them.

Yeah, that's brilliant. I hope everybody circles that as they're listed I didn't goes back and here's Seth say that again Fraud's protecting the idea that they have domain knowledge that they don't actually have

Is great to recognize and to allow yourself to depersonalize rejection. All right, I have some weird. I have some weird questions that you're going to like talking about. Okay, because they all relate to the stuff you're writing about and think about but coming from a different place than we've talked about it before this sort of the opposite of the Bob Dylan question. We've spent hours arguing out which is about a talent one can't comprehend and I was thinking about a CDC who just put out a new album today.

And I've seen online so many people so excited about the new AC/DC album, which intentionally sounds just like the last 10 a CDS which sounded a lot like the 10 before that know, I love AC/DC and and what I thought about as I was putting on their record and it is it just immediately in AC/DC album is what do you have? What is the lesson to be learned from an entity?

Like that that goes deep look so many of us want to I want to complete always want to iterate want to change in iterate all the time because we're worried about being pigeon-holed as a thing but the idea of going deep into a thing instead of going wide and it seems like there's maybe a lesson to be learned from AC/DC in the sound of what it is that they do and I was wondering if that might hit you in any way.

I love this. Okay, so pigeons are glad that they have

Pigeonholes they exist for a reason and you can yes a sinecure like that is a really useful way to live a productive life where you're saying, there's a group of people who have defined the work. I do as a genre unto itself and I am the one and only person who can do it the way I do it and I'm going to serve those people by giving them what they want.

What you don't get when you do that is a life on the wire and there's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. They are creating a product that fuels people that gives them something that they want. But if they went to bed last night before the album dropped worried that the album wasn't going to succeed they're foolish because of course the album is going to succeed they've proven it again. And again that this is what people

Want the same way if you go to Nathan's on Coney Island and they give you a Nathan's Hot Dog you got exactly what you came for nothing wrong with that, but it's different than living a life on The Wire.

And what are the rewards of living a life on the wire? Because I think well one thing I would suggest about the difference and I think it's worth you talking more about this as I at poet. Here's I'm going to pose it. So a lot of people wish they could do the same thing again and again, but the thing is a CDC always makes it seems to me they actually always make sure that the quality and I know you love to define the word quality, but they always the intrinsic thing that's happening in their albums isn't going

Deviate from what meaning. It's it. They're still going to give you care. Not just going to give you the guitars that sound like that. They're actually going to do the work of coming up with riffs that by those standards are good rips. They're going to come up with choruses that by those standards really work and that part is not it may not be scary. But it's very hard. I think yes or for short people would do it, right. So there have to be rewards. They're

they're not an AC/DC cover band right there AC/DC. Those are two totally different things and

and I if I'm not showing enough respect to them. I apologize. It's just

know you are it's you're showing respect to I'm more talking about it for people are doing work

super hard to do something that is in and of itself and you know, so if we look at Richard Serra, Richard Serra makes two million pounds sculptures, and if you look at his early work, it's not Richard Serra work its work done by a art student named Richard Serra and it was years later before Richard Serra became Richard Serra.

Now, I mean, I have no idea if he's still active but now he can tell when a piece of work is worthy of putting his name on it because it's in and of itself it is a complete whole of what it is supposed to be it is not just a reproduction of what he did yesterday and to do that is really difficult. And you know, I was listening to a 1976 LP of Gene Roddenberry talking to different people he worked with

Star Trek the other day and when you hear Roddenberry talk about how he approached Star Trek each great Star Trek episode is in and of itself and the ones where he varied and tried to come up with something outside the genre where either you know hack jobs or failures, but you can make one that has no line that was in the previous week's episode but is clearly in and of itself. Yes,

and there's a value in that. How do you think about that when you set out to

Do a piece of work in other words. How do you think about the fact that to a certain audience? You are a brand like AC/DC as yet you want to offer something new each play. So how does it a Creator who's not at the beginning of their career? I guess. This is why I'm interested in this. Right, right. So man who's not at the very beginning but is trying to find a way to still put themselves into the work, but they know there's an expectation from the audience and so how do you balance those things you Seth Godin and then how should we balance those?

Those

things well, no, it's just something I've been wrestling with particularly in the last seven months. So sometimes someone will send me a blog post that I wrote five or ten years ago and I will read it not remembering anything about writing it but I know I wrote it because it sounds like me and that took a long time to develop. My blog is my blog. It sounds like me and as the times.

Of 2020. We're in our so fraught there were people who said to me you have all this power and leverage. You should repurpose your blog and make it about that.

And I've really wrestled with that because part of me wanted my blog to be my blog but it's not it's s-block and Seth's blog does a thing it is in and of itself and I was really torn because if I really felt like shifting to current events and politics and things like that would have changed things substantially, of course, but it's not my tool it is a thing.

Belongs to a lot of people and it is in and of itself. But when I work on a new thing that isn't the blog in those moments, I am digging into a deeper place and saying well I'm going to live with this thing this medium. This project is company this new approach to something for a long time. So I should build it in a way that I would be happy living with an inside of and it's not going to be sus block this is going

To be a new thing I made and some people aren't going to get the joke and that's okay.

Well, but here's the thing to the astute reader of the blog.

Yeah, I actually didn't do what you just

Let's talk about better help terrific sponsor and they're offering something so useful genuinely useful, which is always my favorite thing to talk about I think about this what interferes with your happiness. What's preventing you from achieving your goals? Like I thought about this stuff over the years and and have gone to therapists to help me figure this stuff out and I used to go to a therapist in person and now I talked to my therapist online.

And better help will assess your needs and match you with your own

licensed professional therapist. You'll connect in a safe and private online environment. You can start communicating and under 24 hours. This is not self help. It is professional counseling you can send a message to your counselor, wherever you want. You'll get responses and you never have to sit in uncomfortable waiting room better health is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches that make it easy and free to change counselors if you need to.

And is worldwide service wherever you are, you can get this they have professional counselors who specialize in depression stress

anxiety sleep trauma self-esteem family

conflicts and your shares confidential. This thing is convenient professional and affordable. There are tons of testimonials posted on their site and it all makes sense to me. Look. I want you to start living a happier life. Today is listener you get 10% off your first month by

Our sponsor at better help.com BK 10 join over 1 million people who've taken charge of their mental health again. That's better help heelp.com /bk 10,

so why don't you try it. Let's try again. And why don't you talk about what you actually did on the blog sash, which is talk. I mean you got a time and we have not talked about this directly. So this I'm not using special information. I'm a reader of the blog and so

And talk about what actually happened because you didn't just ignore those people and you didn't just decide you weren't going to address it and I think it's valuable to talk about the with so people could go read the last four months of blogs. And why don't you talk a little bit about what actually happened on the

Block. Well,

I have a friend my dear friend. I

have a different take on it because I could point to blog post from 10 years ago in 15 years ago where I get ashore. Why did exactly the same thing

sure with maybe not as much

frequency. No you depends.

And the thing is that what I was responding to was a real need for Roadrunner coyote type broad statements that I felt would be ineffective and actually undermine the way that I write and who I'm writing for. So you're correct that the people who are in similar.

With me and my voice in what I was saying. I'm thrilled that what I was trying to teach came through. What I was responding to is that's different than day trading in

of course, but that this goes back to know but I want to I think your heroic here and I want to go back to talking about that that in fact

Because because what I love Seth is that you're so true to the values that you espouse. You're one of the few public figures who is in the business of sharing your thoughts about how all of us can keep growing who actually walks at the way that he or she talks it and and I would say, you know, I know that because I know you intimately but I really know that from knowing your work which is even better and so I would say

Is it you always talk about this question of authenticity is being kind of BS. And I know what you mean by that on the other hand what you hold to be important and crucial you did find a way to put into your blog without changing its form or readability and we only have to look to yesterday and yesterday without and you're going to tell me you wrote it nine months ago and I don't care because what happened yesterday is

right in the dead smack in the middle of your blog is the following paragraph results don't care about our explanation. We need to use full explanation for going to improve but denying results doesn't change them.

November 12th, 2020 and and so didn't you actually find a way to be true to your audience who want from you what they expect from Seth's blog and true to your innermost thoughts and feelings and concerns about the

Yeah, and I've been doing that as long as I can remember.

Well, then, in fact when people said you should change the blog that perhaps they just weren't reading it carefully

enough, correct? And I understand why they would feel that way that as someone who has had so much good luck and so much privilege. I have never been in a movie theater that was on fire. But if I was and somebody wasn't screaming fire at the top of their lungs, I would be annoyed at them.

Yeah, so you're going to write about results if you feel it's important to write about

But I'm also going to do it in a way that doesn't involve screaming at the top of my lungs.

Yes, you served both things. That's what I was so happy about when I read that blog post right not even knowing we were that was going to come up today. But but I do think for people listening.

When there's this question of I want to be myself and I want to say the thing and I want to do the thing yet the the medium in which I'm working doesn't allow for it go back and listen to the way Seth is talking about what he does and then go back and read the blogs that have come out over the last four months and understand how you can serve both things. It takes a tremendous amount of skill and work and you have to be willing to work hard enough at it to do that, right?

I mean to craft something like that. You have to actually be thinking about like you said at the beginning of this your audience