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Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose and I'm on health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you. And today I have a very special episode. A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of speaking with a dear friend of mine, someone who I respect and admire so much, the one and only Will Smith and I'm not joking. You, it's an hour and 45 minutes but you're going to want to get out your pen and a piece of paper or your notepad or your journal and you're going to want to take
Notes, this is without a doubt, one of the deepest, most reflective conversations that we've ever had on purpose will and I have had many of these conversations offline and I can't wait for you to hear it today, it would mean the world to me if you leave a review after you listen to this podcast, it makes a big difference to on purpose and I can't wait to read some out on the next episode. Are you ready? Let's go Will Smith. Everybody Will
Smith.
Philadelphia. I want to be an idea. I want to represent possibility. I want to represent Magic.
Today we're going to dive in to the mind, the heart, and the soul of The Man Behind the movies and the music and my dear dear spiritual brother and friends. So without any further Ado, I just want to say I'm grateful. I'm humbled, I'm so happy to have spent so many special moments with you over the past year, this sounds romantic now my wife's gonna get worried again,
But but, I mean, unless you've been spending a lot of time with
will, yeah, she's never fucking she never felt uncomfortable about my relationship apart
from here. Ha, ha ha.
The only time, she's doubted me is also another trip with Willa. That's what this time she came along. But
we start we certainly have some pictures about waterfalls, you know? Glaciers. Yeah,
we definitely didn't even take all the
pictures.
No,
thank you man. This is this is going to be special and I'm just excited for us to serve together in this way.
No, this is. This is fantastic. It's been a long time coming for us to sit down like this for the people listening. He's probably been a year. We're running up on a year now, right? Yes, it's like, you know, 10 months or something like that. Yeah, that I've been studying with Jay, I fell in love
With the bhagavad-gita and Jane. I've been spending time. We've been hanging, we've been traveling together, and Jay has really been the Catalyst for this next phase of my life. We have committed to one another in a Brotherhood of service and support. I guess we've been in the gym. You know, we have been sold in the soul. Jim.
Him. We're going out for the past eight months, and this is really, this is our first time doing anything. That's a, that's public-facing. So, I'm excited to talk about what we've been working on and Jay's been working with my family pretty much every day. A new Smith starts to study with Jay and also our teacher rather, not Swami. So it's been, it's been a beautiful
A full year and I'm very excited to start talking to people about what we've been studying and learning and doing
together. Absolutely, man. And I also want to say to like, I think it's rare where you get to sit down with someone that you've got to know, intimately and closely. And also, when you sit down, and I've probably watched I'm trying to think, I think I've watched every interview you've ever done over the years before I met you, when I met you I'm always talking to him. Like I remember you said this five years ago or ten years,
Years ago. You said this when I'm sitting down with you now I'm thinking, you know, it's I remember the first time I probably met you was at Willows birthday a few years, man, and everyone was wearing it was will-o-ween. Everyone's dressed in costumes and stuff so I didn't even know it was you and then you had you had like the Zorro kind of mask of your eyes and so it was a big press. I was like, oh maybe that's will, maybe, that's not, I didn't know and then you lifted your mask off. And the thing I recognized you about from the moment I met you was just your ability.
To just be really present and deeply there with everyone. You meet. Yeah. And and, and I felt that from the moment I met you. And then I remember we did the Thanksgiving event at your home. Yeah. And even that day, me and my man, Rodney, you left feeling like, wow, like will was just introducing us to everyone and like making an effort for us to feel like family and for and sober but I remember that and that was the hospitality mean Rowdy fellow with you like that, that ability to care for each person walking in.
Family aspect, making us feel welcomed in a part of it. That I just think that that in today's world that human aspect is what we're all
missing. Yeah, I think that's a, that is a part of my DNA. You know, part of it from difficult aspects of my childhood. You know, I grew up with violence in my home, you know. So
So I developed you know, a really acute, emotional sense. You know, out of Defense, you know, I just needed to make sure that my father was okay. I needed to make sure things were going well, and I just became really hypersensitive to emotional movement in a room as a defense mechanism. And then, as I, you know, grew and as I started to develop that, you know, that heightened sense that
Started out as defense as I settle down and, you know, came in to a deeper understanding of my power and my desires in the world, it was easier to connect to people in a loving way, it Transit, transferred easily, from a defense mechanism to an ability to love and care for
people. Yeah, that's, that's amazing though that you were able to process it positively,
I feel like we're living at a time. We've talked about this before that our childhood experiences form, our adult desire, absolutely. And I feel like, now people are starting to hear that in the conversation with. They're like, oh yeah, because this happened with my parents. Yeah. Now I feel like this tell us a bit about what you learned and how you were able to process it positively and engage with it, rather than create a negative story from it. Because a lot of people may see violence and react
different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Think I'm think that there's always an aspect of us that when we feel unloved, you know, in any capacity in any relationship, when we feel unloved, when we feel mistreated, when we feel somehow disrespected, it's a natural reaction to want revenge, and I think that's what happens with.
With most people specifically in our in our most vulnerable stages when we're children and we have been done anything to deserve that kind of treatment. It's really hard for the ego to not click into Revenge. So the problem is that when you seek revenge, you destroy yourself and that's the paradoxical conflict that we all live in. Yes.
Someone has mistreated us, we want revenge but if we take it we heard ourselves more. It's crazy right? You know what I mean? You know. So that is the rather not Swami referred to the perplexing situation that we find ourselves in and the only answer is loving kindness and most of us don't want to hear that. It's like I'll take my chances with Revenge
Now I'm gonna take my chances with punching his dude in the face or cussing this girl out or whatever it takes but I can't do love and kindness. Yeah and for me I had such a beautiful example of loving kindness in my grandmother, when I was growing up I always knew I wanted to be that the way that she loved and cared for people. I didn't realize that her giving was
Did to her piece. That was something that I got a concept of later, but I always knew that that was my example. And I think that's the critical part. We need it. We need an example. Somebody has to be an example. Human beings are creatures, of example, we need we got to see it. Yeah, you know. So that's really where I am in my life right now. I want to show what it looks like.
Like to be loving and kind and giving and forgiving Ed. And I just want to, I want to model those virtues as best, I care.
Yeah. You know, the thing you were saying it's amazing how the thing we think that's going to help us feel better. Yes. Is actually what makes us feel worse? Yeah. And you hold on to it because somewhere inside of you, you feel, you have to be the person to show that
person. Yeah. The truth. Like you feel like it's
your responsibility?
Ability the hammer you're going to be the hammer of Justice. Yeah. And you
carry that and and it reminds me of there was this thing that this this lesson that we were talking about sharing in our meetings was this quote, by Russell Berkeley where he said people who need the most loved ask for it in the most unloving way. Absolutely. And when you, when you kind of put that in your head, you're like, oh, like that's that's just a plea, begging begging,
Yeah, a literal like it's not even a proposal. It's like a demand to die. Dad. Absolutely. And and you're saying that and I love what you said then that's why I'm bringing it back to what I was saying earlier. The reason why I was highlighting the personal aspect of you is that I think that the example that you're setting
through, who you can be,
Is even more than what you've done. Mmm what you've done is amazing and there's nothing to be taken away from. It's phenomenal what you're achieving and what you continue to achieve, but being able to do that with a loving heart. Yeah, that must be. I mean, how does that feel internet? Does that also feel that way or or know? Is that are you like not OJ this exact way better?
Go get it. But, you know, we had that we had that conversation and that there was a there was a real
It in my life that I had to struggle with we can win or I can be nice. Hmm. Pick one right and different people pick different things, right? You know it's like they're you know for for the type of material world climbing, you know that I did for a big chunk of my life.
It was military minded. You know we're going to get that flag to the top of that hill and you are going to help or you're not going to be here, right? So that's that's one mindset and then after I got the flag to the hill a couple of times and kept getting the flag to the hill and realize that you don't feel good and you've
scorched-earth,
you know, around you and you get I know but nobody
Really happy, you know. And then I started to have to question that mindset. You know, I had one of the greatest runs in Hollywood history, you know, a number one movies, all over a hundred, domestic biggest, Global movie star. All of that in my family was miserable and I had equated winning with happiness, right? Just like, we're winning. What is your
Mmm. You know, you know and the transition from product Focus like military minded get to the top of that hill and then I shifted into a my said it was really my kids who brought me out of that shift into discovering like well damn people really care about how they feel right, you know as crazy as
Sounds like, you know, you know, my father wasn't concerned with how I felt, you know, he wasn't getting me how he felt. He was military minded, you achieve the mission and there's two possibilities. When I give you a mission, there's two possibilities one. You complete the mission or to you're dead, right? You're not nothing. My father was saying I grew up with that. Oh cool. Right? I actually had to discover feeling.
Things, right? And start like, are you step to really focus? Okay, how's this person feel? How's this person? Feel? Not, what do I need them to do? And not, they're wasting our time right now. And we're losing time and we're going to not finish this mission, right? But there's a there is a balance between the mindset of achieving and loving kindness that at this point in my life, I've actually discovered the magical balance but as
Really hard to get people to let go of the attack and defend achievement mindset, and Trust the care and concern, for your fellow humans as a way of creating higher
production. Yeah, yeah. I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now is taking this in, because I think what your painting is, a very transparent honest picture of our minds. Yeah.
Like I can relate to what you're saying, so I can relate to times in my life, where I've been, so about winning and success and numbers, or whatever, it may have been. And, and I know, I'm not even becoming the person I want to be in that process. And I don't even like myself, but because you're choosing to like yourself because of what you're achieving, your finding a new way to like yourself, but not over who you really are. Yeah. And so I just hope everyone is listening and watching.
You know, when you speak sometimes will it's so it's so extreme because you've got so close to that emotion that sometimes people can think. Oh that's a bit extreme. I'm a bit more balanced but really we all have that kind of does that make sense like we all have a bit of that extreme Instinct inside of us in some area of our life. Yeah and it's sometimes a delusion to Philo and actually balance like you sometimes. Listen and go. Oh yeah no that's him
like his father was military.
Yeah I'm but I'm I'm balance, you know.
We always feel. We always feel weird
bad River. Yes, exactly. And you can learn something from the extremes also, right? Yeah. And when you, when you look at athletes, there's a certain extreme mindset that we worship that. There's a poisonous Edge to that kind of discipline. And I've been to the edge of that kind of material world discipline in my mind.
And I can tell you, you can have a whole lot of stuff and be miserable out there on that edge and I found a much more comfortable and productive space in my life and you still need that discipline. Yes. But it is like when you're when you use that kind of power to achieve things there's a brutal Reckoning. Yeah there's a brutal Reckoning at the at the end of that,
the amazing thing about you is
you
Being on that path in that direction. I think people sometimes see these slips where they're like, oh yeah, now that you are rich and successful and famous. Now, you're going this way but actually from our conversations and how you've shared with the family or even when we've worked with some of the friends in your life, it's like this is actually been a long process. This isn't just 10, 12 months, this isn't just a couple of years, this is planted a seed from your grandmother through your whole life capsule ways.
Be reminded of it to study spiritual paths, world. Religions to study philosophy is like, this is just a long process, tell me about that belief, your grandmother had in you and tell me a bit about how she planted that deep seed, because I think what you said at the beginning that we need that example, I think everyone. If they really reflected there'd be someone in their life either indirectly or directly, but sometimes we forget them but when we've been talking everything your grandmother's been such a
Pivotal figure. Yeah, I'd love for you to share what you think she did. That was so powerful because maybe there are some parents listening today, and brothers, and sisters, and grandmothers and grandparents listening today, and they'll be able to do that for their children and
grandchildren. Well, my father, my mother, and my grandmother, whenever I think about the three of them, I picture a triangle in my mind and as he liked my father was the the base.
As discipline and my mother didn't care about anything but education like that you had to learn grow study travel. Like my, you know, my mother was really serious about. Educating the mind and my grandmother was love and God. My grandmother was that grandmother at Resurrection Baptist Church and she had your no Yoo-hoo.
On our Easter recitations and we was in the Nativity, you know. So she was that, she was that grandmother at the church and her life was deeply devoted to God and Jesus in the form of loving service, right? So the form that it took was she was working hard to love everybody. You know, my remember, my grandmother,
Bringing homeless people into our house when we were little and washing them in our bathtub. I thought that was the nastiest thing, but she would be in the bathroom with her hands, washing homeless people, you know? And as a child, it was like, no. But As I Grew Older, I just I just saw how dedicated and devoted she was
To living her life in service. It took me 50 years to figure, you know, to figure out what the secret of that was, you know, but I just watched her, she worked the graveyard shift at the hospital, and she watched us my brothers and sisters during the day, while my parents were at work, you know. And then when my parents got off work, then she went, she would take a little nap and then she would go to work at the hospital, you know? And
She was the just the happiest person that I had ever met nothing face there. She was. Okay. And I remember I was about 12 and I had started rapping and, you know, so I have my rap book. So I had all of my all my little curse words and everything in my rap book, and she found my rap book. And she never said anything, and she just opened the cover and she wrote a letter to me, dear Willard. Truly
Intelligent people do not have to use words like this to express themselves. God has given you. The gift of words, be sure to use those words to uplift people. And you know, I was sitting I was reading that and just love Gigi. Yeah. And you know, that was part of the reason why I never used profanity in any of my music.
Yeah, and it was like she Mission nice to me in that way to make sure that what I was doing was uplifting others. I've always been blessed to be in a position where I've never had to make a decision like that. When you're telling stories, you can always find the part of the story that is a gift for the potential of live moment of somebody that was see it. But yeah she was all God. All love.
Are you know I grew up in a military household. There are certain emotional drawbacks to that there are intellectual and organizational pluses that are hard to be, you know, my father was really strict on order organization and the incremental completion of tasks. And, you know, also combined with my mother's push on edge,
Caishen as a really young child, you know, we had to put hospital corners on our beds and our shoes were lined up. And you know at at six years old we were forced to think along those military lines and everything was a mission there was nothing that was a basic task, you weren't just going to wash the dishes, you know, it was a mission that had to be completed with you know military.
Precision down to how much dishwashing liquid, you're using, and how much the bottle cost. And if you use that much and how many dishes do you wash with that amount of dishwashing liquid liquid? And how long are you going to be able to use this dishwashing bottle? So you can relate that to how much work you have to do to be able to wash that many it Dad. Sounds Indian.
Yeah.
That's more or less intense.
Yeah, you know. So it was really, you know, his mind was like that and I took, you know, we always take the things we hate the most from our parents. But you know, from that the gift of structure and the gift of breaking tasks down into smaller manageable pieces was a thing that I came out of my childhood with
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This is one of my favorite Parts about talking to you because if this ability to turn those into gift. Yeah. And and I want to just emphasize that point to everyone who's listening and watching again because I think we're living in a time right now where there's a lot of bitterness towards parents and what we received and, and some and rightly, so, as well, like some things, you know, quite hard to deal with that level of trauma, Etc. But at the same time, when we start looking at our lives, this way, not in, not in a fake,
Way or in genuine way. But but really start to process some of these things to see the powers that it gave a salute. All the superheroes that we all love in Sci-Fi movies. They all got their powers from bad things that hasn't exactly. No one ever had something good happen to them and then they like for Spider-Man. He got bit by a spider. This place is like, God abandoned by his parents, like all the superheroes, we all love and worship all got their powers from something bad happening to
them. Yeah, you know, it's really difficult to say that to someone
One. Yeah, in the middle of the throws and you should have had experience with about that, right? But, you know, from sitting on this side of the experiences that I've shared in my life. And in my experience, there's no such thing as a bad experience, right? There's experiences you don't like and they hug and they hurt, right? But to define something,
As a bad experience for me, has not been true. Everything that's ever happened to me and my life that at the time was deeply traumatic and debilitating, you know, there's, there's, you know, been only two times in my life when I contemplated suicide. Wow, no. It's been two times in my life. The once was, when my mother and father, separated, when my parents broke,
Cup and I, you know, I was 12 and, you know, that was one of the only serious times in my life that I contemplated suicide. But even out of that as I look back on that, the pain of that experience cultivated devotion in my life to my family. And I just never wanted to have my children suffered
That. And of course the you know they got divorced from sure. He's that was I was recreating that situation but it woke me up in a way that forced me to try to connect with my children. So the negative experiences or the things that were awful at the time. There's always the other side of the coin and in my experience, I've
Cultivated only positive things out of the most negative experiences of my life. My father's death and the six weeks up to my father's. Death was probably the most formative time in my life and as painful as it was and is difficult, wasn't all the stuff that came up during the time, I still, it was a powerful formative positive.
In my life
tell us a bit about that if you don't mind about why you felt it was formative and you know we've talked about this like the idea of like sometimes people regret of what they did or didn't say
two
or maybe what they expected of their parent. What was it? That was so powerful that allowed you to feel that way about that moment because
I got a I got a gift that some people don't get and it was that the doctors told us he has six weeks to live and then he
Lived for four months. So most people, you know, most people don't get a warning, you just get the car one day and you just, you just didn't get a chance. And when I found out that he was dying, it just by the grace of God was in the middle of the shooting, I was doing a movie called collateral Beauty and it was about a guy dealing with the death of his daughter. So I was into the Tibetan book of living and dying. And
Doing all the Elizabeth Kubler just reading all this stuff about deaths. I've been programmed for six months and I had read and studied all of this, all these books about death and grief and dying. And then I get the message, you know, I sat down with my father and I course I had all of my traumas and all of my issues and everything with them. But I had also been six months of programming of all of the things that your
Supposed to do, you know, to prepare yourself for the death of a loved one? You know. So I sat with them and we talked about everything. So I said, everything that I wanted to say and we got to those six weeks. We were clear, but then he lived for another three months. So, what happened was every meeting every time I saw him, I was flying back to LA, but every time I
Psalm was like, oh thank God. And then, every time we say goodbye, we made sure. We said a good thorough full. Goodbye, because we knew at any moment, that could actually be the last goodbye, but the lesson was, is always like that when we say goodbye, we can't know if this is the last time we will ever. See, you should never greet someone casually or say goodbye to someone casually. And that lesson came from that experience.
Every moment was
so rich, every time we saw each other and every time we said goodbye we made sure was a good thorough full goodbye but that's how you're supposed to live everyday. Anyway every time you leave your house could be the last time you're supposed to like be in the richness of your hellos and goodbyes and thank yous. You know, so I learned that lesson with my
There and then when he when he passed we were we were finished just the lesson of that kind of presence and our kind of attention and that kind of recognition that tomorrow's not promised getting shaken out of thinking that you're going to have tomorrow, anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or their brother or their cousin that they had a thing with or their Acts.
And they don't talk anymore, call them right now. Don't think you're going to have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week and it's like that opportunity with my father changed every relationship and my life. I cleaned all of the relationships in my life to No Regret. I do not want someone to be gone and I wish I had and wish I could have, and I'm just, I'm not doing that.
My
life.
That's beautiful man. Thank you for sharing this. That's just hearing you say that. I think there's a lot of people who needed to hear that, and I hoping everyone is going to pick up the phone and message. And if that person is not here anymore, still write them a letter, right? Absolutely. Right. If they're not here anymore, and you didn't get a sale of that, write a letter, read it out to them, we need to a picture of them, if that's what it takes like, allow yourself to share and express, don't hold it in and hold it back because somehow that energy will still reach that person and that energy
Left you too. So, you know, even if you can't call someone up today, make sure you follow the same practice because it's never worth it. And I love that idea of valuing each. Hello and goodbye. And I'm not taking it for granted or taking it lightly. You never know whatever's going to happen, right? You just have no idea. And unfortunately, we we see it. This is this is the there's actually a beautiful. I don't know if we ever talked about this, there's a beautiful piece in the Mahabharata, which is the geeta's a small part of
of. And one of the students asked the teachers had, what's the most amazing thing in the world and the teacher responds and says the most incredible amazing thing in the world is that we see people leave all around us, but we never think it's going to be. I never make sure you see it and you have that moment again and again and then you lose someone in your life and you think oh that could be me or someone else and you live like that for a day. Yeah. And then the complacency sets back in tell us a bit about you.
You've been studying world, religions and spiritual paths for a long time. Absolutely. And the first time I officially reached out to you and your team and everyone was because I saw that you'd been reading the Gita. Yeah. And the Gita was obviously book that I read and studied so deeply and fell in love with, and after having studied world religions myself to, and, and I've had beautiful experiences reading the Bible, and the Quran, and, and the gator. And so, when I saw you talking about it, when you were in India, I was just like, wow. Like this is
Amazing. Like I'm already a huge fan. I Love Will Smith like, how it will reading the Gita. I was like, how did that even happen? And then when I got to know you and Jada and spoke to family, I realized that you'd taken on a challenge to like, study a world religion every year. Tell us about that. And what you learned along the way, what were some of the Traditions that stood out in your journey? And what did you learn from them? Whether it's the Kabbalah or even Scientology, all those because you've shared so many beautiful lessons with me from what you've studied? Yeah, and love to pass them on
I guess.
Probably in the the first 10 years of our marriage, that was me and Jada's bonding every year. We would pick a spiritual tradition and we would study it all the way through.
But, yeah, telling me about even why you and Jada decided to do that.
When we got married, we were trying to decide what church we were going to get married, and we're going to get married in.
More Philly and was with it, who was going to be the trees through? You know, with Jada didn't want to do any of that, Jada wanted for she and I to go to a mountain, you know, pledged our love and Devotion to one another to God. I think that discussion about the, the religious background, we would raise our children and is what came up when we were when we first got married.
And she grew up in a thing called the ethical Society in Baltimore and they would honor the different religions. And my background, I grew up, I went to Baptist Church, I went to a Catholic school, so I was surrounded by religious Traditions growing up and some somewhere in that first decade of our marriage. We were like, oh, wouldn't it be hot? If we could say that we had red car,
Cover all of the major holy books and we started with the Bible and I just remember seeing her Bible was might you know how I do my books. Now you say I'd like all my books are highlighted all the way through and you know, she completed the entire Bible, seven months before me, right? So now, it's all right. So then when it came time for the for the Quran,
I was like, I was I wanted to win. Yeah, right. But you know, so we would take a year and we would study all of these Traditions as a, you know, really as a way of the two of us bonding spiritually and you know, intellectually around the concepts and you know, we went through Kabbalah and, you know, Scientology and really what was happening is every time I would meet someone
Is of a different tradition. I would allow that person to introduce me to what their tradition was and then I did a lie. And so we Circle back around to the Quran during during that time. But we really, just, we love the idea of spirituality and the study of the love of God, and we don't necessarily believe in
Nuys religion. We believe that the organization's kind of jump ahead of the spirituality. You know, the the Church of Christ is very different than Christ. The the steps that Christ actually walked, you know. So we started to notice those kinds of differences and we just we really just wanted to find the truth. You know, what is the truth? And you see how my whole family Dives in the kids are
Yeah. Now, you know, with the with the, the Gita and it's, and it's really just trying to find our way. Yeah. You know, in this
world. Yeah. And and I love that and I was so fascinated by that myself because I saw that Within Myself And so when I saw it with you and the family, I was I was so drawn to that because, yeah, I think that a lot of what we're trying to figure out in today's world has been suffered for long enough
And in an internal way that when you're diving into these books of wisdom, there's just so much there to enough because people have been through the same challenges for decades and decades and decades
the the problems have already been solved.
Yeah. And lived and live long enough
and sobbed and you know, and what it's like at the core
How you treat your neighbor is Central, right? Yes, absolutely. Yet somehow people managed to twist, you know, in all the faiths and all back towards his people, do unto others as you would have them do unto. You is very clear if you ask yourself that question, well, in this situation, how would I have them?
Do unto me and you did that, you'd never have a problem because the answer is never going to be. I think they should curse me out and spit on me and what my ass because I was tripping.
Yes, it's the most simple. Yeah. Yet the most profound. Yeah, it's yeah. We are teachers in the ashram would always tell us and I've said this to you before, but they always tell us that these principles, you'll learn them on day, one, you'll think
Think, you know, the Monday to, but you spend your whole life trying to realize. Yes, and that's the challenge with us. The, we take what we learn on day, one, and what we know on day two to be like, I already know that. Yes, exactly. Then the teaching doesn't, what I love about. What we've been doing is like the teaching gets to like reveal itself to you. It's like, it's always opening up. It's like a lotus flower. It's, it's always blooming. It's not like oh it's open now. It doesn't matter. Yeah. It's like always opening up to you.
If you give it that time and patience, then you can truly see a grow and Bloom into something. But if you just, if you just try and force it, open it just, I mean, you know, if you force the flower open, it would just break and that's what happens that
what I say when I say to you all the time is, you know, to give people a sense of it. So we, we were doing, you know, two to four hours a day.
Day. You know, you know, few days a week for months and months. Yeah. For months, you know, and you know, I we were spending as much time together as we were would spend with our families or other things. So we we've logged some real hours in this in this last year. And the thing that was always amazing to me is that we could take eight hours.
Right? And we spend it and we get in, we study, we do all that and you leave my house and I pick up my phone like, literally, we would do eight hours and I'm great, I'm great, you wouldn't be off of this off of the block yet and I pick up my phone and as a business call and I was like oh that's me must be literally that fast like literally in 45.
Seconds. My mind could get triggered back into that mindset, you know. I know. Now that that's just is every day. Yeah, it's you don't, you know, you don't get to know it and be done. Like it's a, it's a daily practice for the rest of your life, to be able to deal with the foolishness of this world, in a way, that's productive and
kind. Yeah. Now everyone
Knows I'm terrible at what I do. Well, as soon as
you're working with years of sediment, you're
one of the last lifetimes. Like, the conditioning is so strong. Yeah. And it's almost like
When we start to do the work you're walking into a garden Full Of Weeds. Yeah. The flowers are covered. All the beauty of the garden is covered in Weeds and so you kind of down the weeds but because you've been watering the weeds for so long, they keep growing bacteria and she keep calling them down and they keep going back and it's the example, the analogy of the mirror that's given in The Vedic tradition around how when you walk in and you try and clean a mirror that hasn't been cleaned for lifetimes, it's dusty.
So when you start cleaning it, the dust comes up in your face and you look all. I can't see, I can't, I can't see. And that's what we're all going through and because we're so disconnected from nature. Our mindset has become instant. Yeah, and our mindset has become now, whereas, when you watch nature Nature's never insult.
Yeah, they are call that hunting versus farming, right? Okay. Grunting versus farming rear, where people just like just this, let's get it. Let's get it. A neat.
Right. That's a great, you know? Versus now we're gonna like we didn't play
it on the crops brother. I love that. Yeah, because it's, it's the idea that, if you if me and you said, we want to plant a tree, you'd have to come back to that tree every day to see how it was doing. Yeah. And it won't be a tree for many many years, but you'd have come back, everyday water, it sunlight, move it, we plan to soil your. That's what we're doing with ourselves. But for some reason, because we're so disconnected.
I did from nature. Now, we think that, oh, if I just meditate today and it's you know, it's like saying all I'll eat today and I don't have to
eat too much. Yeah, I showered last words out of this week, I'm good but but
yeah, it's you know, an eye again. It was your commitment. I remember when we were on that first phone call and I was like, you were like I want to work on this house. Like how much time do you have? Like how much, how much time do you have a nice? You know Will Smith something in, you know, every time and I don't know how serious you get yet. I'm not I'm not
We're yet of how how immerse, a necessity given stuff. I'm still learning about you. And then you like, I've got two hours and I was like two hours a week, two hours bi-weekly to as monthly, you like no two hours a day and you really inspired so much of my own study and that's what I was telling to you over Christmas.
Which is when we kind of broke off his, I went to London and you've been traveling. It's like I spend the whole of Christmas reading myself for 48 hours, a day meditating against beautiful, because I felt, I had to be more to give you
more. That's
beautiful. And I think that, that was such a gift, you gave me where I fell back in love with what I fell in love with years. That's beautiful because of the work we were doing. Yeah, and because when you're answering someone's questions, you have to read deeper.
I think more and reflect more. And so for me I went away from those meetings going gosh, I you know, I better start reading, was you? It was, but it, that's what's so beautiful about sharing something that
together.
The central focus of my life and everything that I've done has been centered on having a successful love relationship, right? So, I saw my parents when they were growing up and I hated that my parents marriage deteriorated. And you know, as young as I can remember. Five six years old, I wanted to be married and wanted to have a family
I've never been the guy that wanted to do threesomes and groupies and I like I just I never been that guy always wanted to commit commit and have a single successful relationship. So the the scientist in my mind and in my study of spiritual texts and things like that, I've always been looking for the secret to successful love relationships.
And then as I've grown, it's sort of expanded and I'm seeing the through line do the same basic ideas are successful parenting and the same basic ideas are being successful follower, or a successful leader, or successful student. And I started to see the problem is almost exclusively, a lack of understanding of the other person's perspective, right? And if you
A difficulty with another human being, there's some point of ignorance and some point of delusion that are keeping you from being able on both sides on both sides, right? And you are always bringing poison to the party and if you can focus on locating and purifying the poison, you brought it opens up into
entirely new avenues of connection and compromise and solutions that you can create with a person. You know, that has really been the central focus of my life and being an actor has been spectacular in that way because my life is exploring my mind. You know, and changing it right? When I play a character, who believes something that I don't believe.
Have to learn how to feel something that's in opposition to my truth. Yeah, which is a spectacular skill set to have to uproot beliefs implant, new ideas, and have them Blossom on camera at the right moment. You know, it's been such a powerful inner process of development to
to explore acting in conjunction with spirituality and supreme absolute truth. You know, to explore that as a job. Yeah, is
fantastic. Everyone should be trained as an actor. When you first said that to me, when you first said that to me, I was like, I never thought of it and obviously, I'm not an actor in so I wouldn't know that. But when you said that to me, I was like, wow, that's like how people should be taught how to be students, right? Because the idea that you
Have the skill set and it's a skill to put your beliefs aside. Yes, and go. I need to live by the beliefs that this character would die. Absolutely. Yeah. What would they be willing to die for? Yes, and then you're experimenting with it and then you can see whether you like it or not, right. Absolutely feels. Whereas most of us are so grounded in our own beliefs that we don't know how to take that hat off, right? And put another one on. Absolutely. And that's where all of our issues come from because that story of someone else. Yeah. Someone that you know that
That did that extremely well in in probably the most difficult circumstances. With Nelson
Mandela? Yes.
Absolutely. No. You've spoke. We've spoken by many times you spoken about in public Dimensions. I just found this clip of you guys together that I have to show you. It's a while ago, but it's not. It's really, it's, I watch this holiday. I would watch that. Anyone is watching you have to go watch the whole thing. I'm only showing will a short clip that that it's this clear.
I don't know if you remember, I was I was saying to you you know I'm an actor, it would make rap music. That's what I do. What what can I do? And you know a set with mr. Mandela was so inspired you know you want to immediately. You want to quit your job you know you want to go out in the streets you know you're going to want to fight. Yeah and he said he said no you have to understand the power of what it is that you do. You have to understand the hope.
That is created by the work that you create and he told me that don't not to force it, that the call would speak to me. And today, the the call has spoken to me and I humbly gratefully and will aggressively respond and thank you.
Wow, goodness.
I'd forgotten about that. Willow, that was in Jeopardy, that's wild.
Wow. I mean there are so many I could show you.
That was one of the case. There was so many that's fair to distil clips of you to. Yeah.
Now that was a but I was sitting with mr. Mandela. It may have even been that day and we were sitting in was come. He just had this look on his face and I said, what's that? Look on your face? And he was kind of looking. He was just watching people. I say, you know, something that the rest of us, don't know. Yes, we did. He looked at me and he the look that I recognize now.
Now was he said, oh, it was like that's the right question, you know? And he said, you come spend some time with me. I'll teach you and somehow I was so just felt. So Unworthy of that he reached out to me every year.
before he died and you know he said I'm an old man you need to come spend some time with me and I just felt unworthy you know and
He wanted to teach me what we're studying, you know, he wanted, you know, I, I've tasted a little bit of what he wanted to teach me, and the question is, how can you smile in this world, you know, because you're not going to change it, you know, you're going to, you're going to do your part by.
This world is chaotic and it's brutal and it can be really unloving.
And how do you do your part with a smile on your face? You know, and it was really beautiful wanted a few things. Not not even, you know, I know things happen in their in their times it's not a not a regret regret regret but it's like a regret. I always say to you that it's
the fact that you didn't go because you felt unworthy is a least from the tree
And I've studied would be considered extremely good spiritual qualification for learning. Yeah. Like when we think it's weird, like spiritual life is like, it's teaching you self-worth without having low
self-esteem. Yes. Yeah, but
it's, and you said it. Once in an interview of speaking about Nelson Mandela, you said, like, you know, it's like being in his presence made. You realize how small
you are? Yes. Yes. But how big you could be a big. Yeah. Right. You said that. So when I heard you say that, yeah, you said something that again? Yeah.
That's good
stuff. Yeah you said that you said that and it was when I heard you say that I was like that is spiritual self worth. Like we live in a world today where self-worth or self-beliefs all out on the best. Like I own this like I'm worthy of everything of course Nelson Mandela was to spend
time like that one. That's
material self-worth. Yeah but it's fickle and it's boring is so it has no base to its baseless it whereas that feeling of like when as you say
That when I'm with him or when I was around him, I realized how small I was but how big I could be, that spiritual self worth. And I think people often confuse humility with weakness with low self-esteem. Like I will, you must have had low self-esteem but it's not. It's just the idea that I've still have to evolve a little bit of feel like and and you know
you deserve his time and
attention. Yeah. And because you had that I feel you know you've continued in
Your way to find the, and he still involved in your life. That's the beauty of that. Someone loves you that much. They don't start like your grandmother, she didn't stop being involved in your life, and I felt every time you've spoken about him, that you brought him into my life just by speaking about him. And now into everyone else's life even more. And and, you know, I'm sure you know, obviously I can't speak on his behalf at all, but all I can say is that his energy is still in your
life. That's real. He lives.
That is
real. Yeah, it's it's beautiful but I want to talk about a few more things before I let you go. There's I could talk to you forever so and we do do that. So I won't do that today. But I wanted to talk to you about when you mention because this I have I came back to this because this was the initial statement that was like I need to get to know will and it was when you said that you were channeling your inner origin.
Yeah. Your hand and you said that and I was just like,
but tell me about why Arjun is a character for you has been
Then because you even and I think this is because of you and your story telling you even brought Arjun in my life, more to life you are. So tell me a bit about why Arjun was so synonymous with you and
you not. So for people that don't know, he's a wonderful Archer, he's the best archer in the world and his family trips out and take the kingdom. And they're like, do you know, they snatch his wife and they're trying to disrobe his wife and he's
Kind of like, you know, what are y'all Jokers doing? Like he comes home and he's like, and they seize the kingdom and he can't believe that they have done this and he you know, he's a warrior, he could get, he could get the kingdom back, you know. But these are his uncles and his brothers and laws and his teachers and people that he loved and trusted and they took his kingdom and
and they prepared an army and they're going to fight Arjuna and he's devastated that his family and his friends, and all of that for material gain would do this to him, and he's deeply Pious and they prepare an army to greatest army that's ever been assembled.
Except that they don't know that God is driving arjuna's Chariot, right? And they think they're going to tear through Arjuna, they're going to do all of this but God is driving arjuna's Chariot, right? And even in that he's like how can me killing all of my family? Be the
the right answer.
Right. And on the other side of that, he's like, whoa, I'll just let them kill me. I'm not doing that. There's no version of me going into battle with them. I don't care how wrong they are. I don't care. And it's and as I just got deeper and deeper into that story, it's like I feel like that all the time, right? I feel like I'm in
What rotten that Swami referred to as a perplexing situation, always always, right that I feel stuck in a perplexing situation with people. I love where there's not clean answers and
I always feel strong enough like if if you if you want to fight we can fight. I'm not a fight but how can that be the right thing? You know, and I just really related to how the Gita handles those kinds of perplexing situations and recognizing that
what life is you are born into a Perpetual perplexing situation and that
The the it was it was the first time that I'd ever heard, the spiritual idea like that that life is a perplexing situation. You're never going to get around being stuck. In The Duality. You have to elevate above the, the whole thing, you know, and the Christian concept about that, that I always heard and never understood fully and
Grandmother would say all the time you got to let go and let God, yeah, right? And it was, and it was like that it just, you know, the the Gita filled in that concept of what it really means, it doesn't mean don't do anything. Yeah yeah let go and let God doesn't mean don't do anything. It means Do Your Divine Duty. Whatever that
Maybe and Just for whatever reason, the study of the Gita at this particular point in my life really clarified, a lot of ideas of how to move through a world where you almost can't do it, right, right. It's like there's a there's God's plan a practical joke, right? And when you
Are seeing that there's a trick in there, you know. And then the the Gita illuminated that trick for me in a way, I was like, how could I be the biggest movie star in the world? Be the best at all of this and how you not love me, right? And you know, how it was but family miserable and he's like that Stitch,
Trick, you don't ya Chuckles joke? That's beautifully explained because
it's the perception of the right reaction. Yes, that's where we get lost. Is that for us something? What going back to what you said at the beginning? You would like, there's no such thing as a bad experience. We're looking at the result. Yeah, of our
activities, absolutely.
As a signal of how well we're living.
Yes.
Absolutely.
And that messes us up because the result of your activities is not under your control.
Yes,
absolutely. And so if you're living your life, based on the result of your activities being a signal that you're successful, right? You're setting yourself up to Absolute of us. Do it all the time.
I was using Jada's reaction to my actions as a measure of the quality of my
actions. Yeah.
And one thing has nothing to do with the other. Yeah. Right. And that's, that's not what we're taught. And the concept that someone's reaction to your behavior is theirs, and your behavior is yours. And when you try to marry the two, when you try to use the outcome,
As a measure of the quality of your own being, that is the kiss of death, correct. This, the way that this material world works, you can do everything right and it still go wrong in terms of outcome. Yeah. And you can do everything wrong and it still goes right in the outcome and the outcome, the outcome is not.
Not connected to the quality of your behavior, and that is such a hard idea to digest. So, I am, I am certain and I am committed to being who I am and how I want to be without a craving for someone's approval because I know their approval doesn't have anything to do with me, you know, sometimes we get stuck in these
Shins where we're seeking the approval of someone for our self-esteem, self-esteem is about yourself, right? But we start looking to other people for our self-esteem. And, you know, sometimes we find ourselves looking in broken mirrors to get a reflection of ourselves.
Right. And the greatest tragedy is when you look into a broken mirror to see if you're pretty and you're not let that person, tell you about your inner qualities and the greatest tragedy is when you look in a broken mirror and you're going to change your face to try to look good in a broken mirror man.
Oh, I'm so glad to be free from that.
That was fantastic. Yeah, that is incredible and that and that's it. That's that's, that's literally it. Yeah. When you can free yourself from that
cycle. Yeah. And it's a trap. It's rough.
It's crazy. It's it just keeps you there and to see you at this stage in your career to still be growing, still be pushing. I mean, for people who don't know,
Like I have to share this because it's what I find. And this the only time I get to tell everyone is, you know, like for me to see you on set busy like, you know, I mean for anyone who's never been on sets, it can be a stressful environment, your, it's high pressure, like you're acting you're going to know your lines, you got to interact
and the sun's going down, we'll
would literally come back in the trailer and he'd be reading in between being on set.
It's a reading, spiritual texts, spiritual books in between and I would, I just saw that. I was like, wow. Like you know, it takes so much effort, and determination, and hunger to be filling each and every Gap with growth. Yeah, and so for anyone who's listening to this podcast, while they're driving to work, while they're commuting while they're editing a video. However, you are consuming this podcast. I want you to know like you're doing that same thing, you're committing to grow committing to grow in your gaps. When you could just
Doing something else like you could have been in your trailer. I don't know doing what people do in their trailers and I don't know, I don't know why people do that trailer. Oh, that's my past Joy.
Do that in my trailer. No more in there by myself. Yeah,
you know, and just I would see that dedication and I think if you know to find time in between when you're filming a movie and it's a big budgets and all this test everything in your your focus was
here. Yeah.
Your focus was here, even in amongst all of that, that was truly inspirational. And, you know, that behind the scenes, look at your, your internal journey is has had such a big impact on my life. It's a no excuses.
Just, yeah, there's only one thing to do and that's to learn right to, we have to free ourselves from the darkness of our own ignorance. You wouldn't call some up some
Thing a problem. If you understood it, the problem is, you don't understand it, right? That's why you're calling it a problem, right? You don't, you don't call things problems that you have complete comprehension of the process of freeing yourself from your problems is in constantly cultivating. A broader comprehension of the deeper truth of what
it's actually happening, right? And one of the things that I learned is that if I feel bad, if I'm unhappy, if I'm upset, if I'm disrupted or disturbed, the only thing that could do that is my ignorance. That's the only thing that creates misery is you slip into a sort of hopeless.
Ness of not being able to figure it out life is school. You know you're not getting the promotion you want at work. That's cool. Get it figure it out you know someone in your family is sick. That's cool. That's like life is the greatest teacher. There is you just have to be willing to learn and recognizing that your pain and your suffering.
Offering is the thing that universe is poking at. So you recognize, that's where you're
ignorant. Yeah.
You wouldn't be having those struggles in those areas. If you had a deep broad comprehension of the fundamental realities of those situations.
Yeah. It's so beautifully said again it's we're programmed to believe that life.
Fizz for enjoyment, right? But actually it's for education
for Education. Yes, and we
keep seeking enjoyment in education. Yes. Which one you think we're in a candy shop? Yeah, we're in a
classroom. Yeah, I call that the poisoned honey scenario, right years? You're seeking enjoyment, you want something sweet? And you don't recognize that that honey is poisoned, right? It's going to be sweet going down but it's you know, the the kickback on that thing is something terrible. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and
we see that we see that in, we've talked about this concept before and you brought it up, you were like, you know, the sacred clown. Yeah. As always being the emblem and the symbol and and again it's God's Gift where you get to entertain, make people laugh. But you want to help people grow through that. Absolutely. And and that's really hard to do. But you do that's you. That's who you are. Tell us about how that's now coming through in the work. You do like how you've actually brought
Into reality because sometimes it can feel very heady. Yeah. You've really been working hard on taking it out of the head, into the heart and into the world.
Yeah. And that was that, that was one of the things about Aladdin. That was, so defining for me, you know, and that, that concept of the Sacred clown, I had written that down in one of my books, you know, five or six years ago. And it's like, at my core. That's either who I am or who I
want to be, but it's in there, it's in there. Yeah, it's in there. Really deep and in playing the genie, it was like I was at home, right? That combination of fun, light silliness and that's who I want to be in the world. I want to be singing and dancing and being silly and playing and all of that and then sneak in the ideas and, you know, under the joy
But I had heard that I think was the the Lakota Indians or something like that Americans, yesterday they had the image of the Sacred clown which is often considered negative. Yeah, yes, yeah. But it's like I connected to it, it's like, oh, that's right. That's what that's what the singing and dancing, and all of the joy, and all it is smiling, and all of that is for. It's a just a beautiful conduit for the
The, the ideas. And, you know, that's just this at my core. That's, I'm happiest in that space.
Yeah, beautiful. Well, I could talk to you for hours and we will, they were, I'm sure we met. I'm gonna let you I'm going to ask you what, I call the final five. These are one word answers,
one word, one word to one
sentence, the phosphide working past first. We have this year Fast Five. The first is what is the best advice you've ever received
the best?
Advice I've ever received the first day I got on the tour bus when we were leaving for the first time leaving. Philly, me and Jeff and all our Squad. The last thing, my grandmother said, as the door was closed and she said, hey lover boy. Remember be nice to everybody. You pass on your way up because you just might have to pass him again on your way down.
Is like that, that, that, that always stuck with me. I love that. That's
great. All right, second question, what's the worst advice you've
ever received? The worst advice? My boy, Charlie Mac, Charlie Mac told me. He said, hey man, listen, listen, listen, the way you make a woman, love you to make a woman. Love you you take out to dinner you know and then as you going out to place, you just knock somebody out because a woman got to know, you could defend it you just knock somebody out.
Do not go. If you knock out anything, it could be a stranger and you just, you just knock somebody out and she see your strength and that's how she'll feel confident, and it changes everything to change your sexual life and just change everything about you. But you really, you got get them good and just knock somebody out. Did you try it now? You know, I never know. I love that.
One thing you learned from observing the life of Julius Erving and Muhammad Ali.
Wow, so so Julius Erving was like, the man went right in the heart of my childhood. The Seventy Sixers won. The championship in 1983, in a four-game sweep of the Lakers. It was Evan Wright and
Dr. Jay was and everything in Philly, and I would say the, the single thing with Doc is he was always dignified no matter what somebody said, no matter what somebody did. He got in one fight in his entire NBA career, but the idea that he was just perfectly still and he was an
Exquisite well-spoken gentlemen, he was a killer on the court but he was just exquisitely, elegant and peaceful while at the same time doing the thing and that balance of those two things I always thought was spectacular. I love that. That's beautiful. Yeah. Are you saying yeah, you guys spent so much time, there's some great interviews between the you Jersey,
Ali Ali was hilarious. One of the things so I leave with just come to said he would walk around, he would walk away and just get on a bus, we say, yo, where's the champ? And he would get on a bus and just ride a city bus and just ride with people. No idea where the bus is going, nothing? No security, anything like that, right? And he was engaged with people in a way I had never seen anybody like as famous as he
Was he engaged with people in that way? And I would say, the total and utter submission to God. He looked like he was arrogant but it was it was the other way. It was like he was talking like that and acting like that because he was so utterly, submissive to the will of God.
And that combination just really inspired me with how I wanted to be with people in the world and I as Malia chant. Why do you you just walk away with people like that and you know, he said, oh man, you got to let these people see you. He said ain't, they ain't never seen nothing like you before. Got to, you got to get out there and you got to touch them so they know you. Real people can aspire to stuff that they don't think is real. You know, you
You know, and it was like he was just so in tune with what he was. The seemingly. Arrogant humility was was a beautiful combination, love that. All right, question.
Number four, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months
in the last 12 months? I would say the, it's that ignorance and evil are twins.
They look, you look at the, you look at them and they look they look just alike except that ignorance can be educated and evil is a much more difficult problem and I would say I learned fortunately that ignorance is much more prevalent than blatant evil,
if that Alexis is yawns. Yeah.
Lemon, that makes so much sense. We have to have a whole crab. That makes a lot of sense. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?
It would be that you have to repeat back what you heard the other person say before you're allowed to say what you think.
That the law is you're not allowed to respond to what someone said until you repeat back. What you heard and the person has multiple opportunities. No, no. No, that's not. I didn't. That's not what I meant. And until you repeat back accurately, what the person said, you don't get to talk.
That is a great. I love that principle helps in every area
as we are mine.
Things go way off the deep end with what we heard somebody say and our response. Well, first of all we not really listening mmm, because we went to we already know what we want to say, no matter what they say and and we go really way off the deep end. I was shocked and surprised by how far we can be from what someone actually said to what we heard absolutely.
Yes. Welcome there. That broken mirror. Yes. Exactly. Yeah,
I love it. Well, you're amazing man. I love you too. Thank you for being so generous with your
time because you
always showing up with your heart and soul and
you might guide. So it's whatever, you
know, this is special. That I really, I really felt that after last year, came to a close and all the work we did. I think this was a nice way of encapsulating this
chapter. Yeah. And then we
start the new chapter this year.
Let's go. But this felt like a good for me, like, just, just hold that Sacred Space of everything that we did over the last year, and then and then to start afresh
again. So, I love it. Thank you, man.
This podcast was produced by Dust. Light Productions, our executive producer from Dust Light, is Misha Yusuf. Our senior producer is Juliana Bradley. Our associate producer, is Jacqueline, Castillo Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot sessions and special. Thanks to Rachel Garcia. The dust like development and operations coordinator.
