Jan 6 Hearings, Yang does standup, and our last Thursday episode of the summer

so I talked to Rich, dude, I know, and he said that, he loves to recruit losing congressional candidates to the nonprofit's that he runs because he thinks that the folks who run are really talented often, they lose, you know, now because they're like not great, candidates would just because of various structural things and he thinks that the skillset lends itself, very very nicely to Growing nonprofits politics and nonprofits

We've learned person and he's like about the founder, right? And it falls around the person helps the narrative. I mean, if you can get critical mass, let's call more than ten to twenty percent of the vote and some anything and that's remarkable the party then becomes something that people will be like, oh, I should pay attention to because that's the way the American system works is like, nobody cares, unless you're a threat, unless you can be

This week

on forward, big announcements re the podcast, the January 6 hearings politics or as nonprofits versus business. Should you surprise your significant other when you proposed a career in comedy so much to talk about this week on

This is going to be the final Thursday episode of me and Zack for quite a while when I say quite a while. The summer we really had like a summer Hiatus just want to say first how much fun I've had hanging out with you. Zack. And for everyone who's been listening really grateful, really appreciative? I hope you feel like you've been on this journey with us. So, why are we? We

Not recording for much of the summer. Number one is that both Zach and I are going to be traveling a fair amount. And so if you're not in the same place and what are we going to do like zoom and be like, hey, like will shoot the shit over Zoom. It just didn't seem that the same. But also we think that we could all use a little bit of a break over the summer, like everyone needs a respite and a Hiatus bigger picture. We have projects in the offing that

take us to periods, where frankly, we have like, you know, full-time hands on operating roll offense, but we're going to have better shit to do than to talk to. You know, I will never have better sense that you. But how about just talk rather? We've got stuff to do not talk about out of that. Yeah, he's like at Roots Zach and I are both operators entrepreneurs Builders. Now in my case, what I'm building first and foremost is the forward party, a new political movement which is growing by Leaps and Bounds were going to have exciting announcement.

For you. But in Zach's case, he might build an honest-to-god company, that will have very exciting announcements for you on. But first, you have to go to the lab for a while, and gotta go get this thing. I hate people, people say they're working on a stealth company, like you're so special, you can't talk about it, but it is smart to keep it under wraps until we figure out how we're selling it. And we'll have the launches and things like that. So A few more months, but you guys will be Honestly by the first to know, so, yeah, yeah, we'll bring bags Zac so we can talk about this exciting.

A new company that he's working on that. I will be more than cheering for. I mean I'll be helping after Sandra to stay involved in most of the stuff. Yeah, I mean, you know, I can increase the chances of success of a lot of things. And so that's why the, for sure one of the fun things. So, so summer break from the Andrew and Zach perspective. I know you've all been waiting for

Huh? But bigger picture. Me and Zack are still doing great things. You just have to, we have to go take the summer, to go bake some stuff in the oven back to the lab again. Yeah, January 6, hearing, let's do January 6. I'm not watching this shit. I know you're, I've watched a little bit on Twitter talk what I quote, followed a little bit on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. I also have not been watching the bulk of the hearings have been getting like synthesis and news accounts and social media.

The clips and whatnot. And so, here's my take on it, writ large where I think a lot of Americans are. So, I'm in the camp that the interaction was very, very serious and lives were lost and people should be held accountable. I am also of the opinion that this set of hearings has become kind of this political theater that is not necessarily going to result in.

Close to the Department of Justice, or legal, proceedings, against various, various, folks. I think some of the committee members have even said as much saying, like, oh, it's not our job to refer. And the unfortunate thing is that there are a couple ways. This could have gone. Number one, is you have a lot of responsible, Republicans raising their hands saying, hey and you have a handful. I mean you have like the leaders of the anti-trump and I was about to say wing of the party, but it's not a wing. I mean it

It's literally like people it's so it's Liz Cheney is Adam. Kinzinger it sometimes, occasionally, someone else takes their head in. I mean, like the end and I do want to take a quick detour and say, look, There Were Ten, Republican house members who voted to impeach Trump. That number was, apparently 35 just hours before the vote, but they all got death threats via VIA text message. And then the number 135 to 3225 and then

When it came down to the last 10, a lot of them weren't sure. What they were going to do because they were all getting so much pressure not to vote that way. So then 10 did vote that way and of those ten for have retired, including kinzinger one, just lost in South Carolina. So again, when you say like wing of the party you're talking about, at this point, there are literally only five house members and that number could go down pretty quick over this next period of time. So you don't have a truly Broad.

The bipartisan approach to these hearings. It was you know, run for TV by essentially the Democratic party. And so to me like the single biggest question is like, will there be legal proceedings against various figures do? I personally think that there should be legal accountability. Yes, I do. Like you don't need to convince me of this stuff, like I know it was messed up the thing you need to. Convince me of is

Is there going to be real accountability? Or are you just trying to make your case for public consumption? The left in particular while Trump was president and since these left have their you'd watch an MSNBC or CNN piece and they're like, this is the bombshell that will turn the tide against shut. This is the thing. They don't want you to see. This is going to change everything and they've said that over and over, we've all seen it for one thing or another, whether it's XYZ whistleblower, this and nothing is ever good thing was

I'll report them all the report. Yeah, that's a great one. It's frickin impossible. Yeah, was and literally a nothing Burger. It's over over nothing burger. And it's not like nothing that there wasn't anything wrong. It's just that this don't. These aren't don't turn into actual prosecutions. Now let me ask you is that because the wrong doings are not that bad or is that look politics governing is messy anything you do on the right over here is stuff that the left is doing to. So if you actually prosecute me, we're going to flip the flip the script right back on you.

Soon as we're back in power, and no one wants a open that can of worms. Well, you know, I think that you have a degree of this institutional weakness, and where if there was, let's say political consensus. Let's imagine a world where the Republicans had joined hands and said, hey Trump, this is beyond the pale. You need to be held accountable and then everyone was rallying around doj prosecution's tensor. Yeah. And

And the rest of it. Yeah. What had happened in that world? Yeah, I think it would the world we're in right now. Is that you have a deeply divided government. And so then the Democrats feel like, hey, if we bring this, it's going to be decried as a partisan hack job. Certainly Trump's going to court to say that, right? And and then it becomes a much more difficult choice for the the various officials and you so you would need and a set of officials with

Certain disposition certain frankly, courage. And I feel like that's kind of lacking. They're much more likely to say This falls into a gray area and let it go. And then Things fall into again, this political realm where certain people think like, oh, you know, it wasn't that serious than others, think that people should be, you know, like sent to jail.

Right. So yet again, we'll have a whole bunch of resources, time, money, energy people fundraising around this. Well, I'll tell you what, I talk about Donald Trump running for president again, like a lot of Democrats. Look at me and say, hey, like, but won't he be in jail by then? When he'd be indicted by then, and I'm just like, well I'll believe it when I see it, you know what I mean? Like, people have been talking about this for freaking ever since before he was running. Is that before or since he was the nominee.

You know, the best let's call an on clickbait case. I've seen has been frankly, like tax evasion, and tax fraud in New York, York City, that stuff's legit. That's how they got Capone if you will get them for actual crimes in that sense and murders and things like that, they got him for tax evasion so maybe but I I'm with you, man. Like it's

Our systems crumbling, it's not really working, a lot of forces working against it. I want to bring this up because one, if you're on the left and you're getting, let's call it democratic-leaning or highly, fueled messaging you're seeing all these hearings over and over and being told Trump's on his last rope and XYZ. And if you're on the right, you're probably not seeing this at all. Like, foxes barely covering it and they're not even the far right anymore. Let's call it the other, your daily wires and breitbart's and further and further, right? They're not touching.

Right. So the reality is we probably get nothing. You know, it's probably a lot of again for me it's like I will believe it when the legal proceedings are brought to bear and until then I'm just like wake me up until. Yeah, you know I mean it was real. Yeah.

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We don't always have talked about you on musk on this podcast, but he said something, I think a lot of people are thinking but we haven't really talked about really since you ran for maybe mayor bit. I think you talked about it, but a bit on President the presidential race was Tick-Tock. He said, it's essentially destroying civilization. We have a lot of young people spending a lot of time and energy, and it's not like a small subset. It's a lot, it's a mean, you have kids that are getting closer to the number one, platform spending a lot of time energy.

Focus on Tick-Tock. What are the consequences of that for this generation? Is it as bad as people say? They are we overblown? You know, talking how the kids are this is old people complain about the kids. Is it that bad or is it over bone Tick? Tock is a very, very addictive place to be, you know, I want to take talk, I don't sit there and scroll on Tick-Tock very often but when I do it's hypnotic so I what I what I see is

Kids just going in, you know, going into Tick-Tock consumption mode and just tuning out and you're just like hypnotized by music and typically young people and catchy videos and they're short and then even if you're not loving it like the next video starts. So what does this mean? In terms of young people? I'm a parent, I've got two kids and the main thing I want my kids to do is read books and it's not really happening for them.

Em. You know that they'd much rather play a quick video game or whatnot. So tick talk to me is an extension of that it's that you have consumption habits and attention span durations that are going to shift. And a particular way, I mean like Tick-Tock a couple things. I don't love about it and social media in general, the tick-tocks, like the seems to be the Pinnacle so far where you don't have to connect with the people around you like you could have no friends around you but millions of people following you on the app and feel

You get that positive connection and dopamine from million, but actually millions of actually have no friends and I don't think that's a good thing. I think it prioritizes like short-term gains, like doing something for like a clicker, a like. And if it's the marshmallow test, right where delayed gratification is one of the biggest indicators of successful people and I feel like this Cuts strongly in the opposite direction. So I worry about the impact of that and I also worry about these kids

I spending a lot of time and energy and resources and something that really isn't doing much. It's adding, I guess, maybe Sparks of Joy, but it's not really adding much value except distraction. So I worry about that, you know? And how its if I was a kid I'd be shaping my mind in my social scene. Well, we're were, you iring kids, brains and Myriad ways, and Tick-Tock is the latest progression. My running joke, is that I'm going to start a billion dollar app to replace Tick-Tock and it's going to be called tick and the

Maximum video, length is 1 second. Whoo. So watch out. Tick tock tick is coming. It's coming for you.

Hitting the World Trade Center is playing his first game in the vehicle itself. All we saw was that one explosion tear down this wall. Hi, I'm Jon Meacham. Join me and C13 Originals for our new podcast reflections of history. As we look back on key moments from our past and reflect on a new piece of History, each day of the week Monday through

Each episode guides listeners on a historical journey to an event on its anniversary, offering a glimpse into the past and a guide for the present. We will reflect on impactful moments, listen with me, Jon Meacham to reflections of History, a podcast creation of shining CD audio a c-13 originals and Jon Meacham studio available for free now wherever you listen to your podcast,

All right, man. So we have been recording these convos since October, so it's approximately nine months or sand in the studio in the studio, you and me. Yep. So in that time, you've had some major life events. You've gotten engaged to be married. Yep. You become a published author. It's true, but a fun night months or whatever.

Means you and I have traveled to Miami and Austin together. Right now are we were in l.a. what are your favorite memories of the last nine months it can be in the podcast or outside the pod cast? Aside from a mean we can talk about getting engaged in becoming other so that was great. You certainly are you sure she's going to say yes, I'm sure she's gonna say. Yes. Nice. This is good.

I highly recommend that folks, if you're going to propose to someone talk about it beforehand. No dude. Like so I proposed to Evelyn you were not sure. Right, you're okay. I proposed Evelyn and here was the only bar I set for myself was that she has to not know it's coming. Okay? And so I genuinely surprised the shit out of her that's good like really like kind of speechless kind of thing and then her response at verbatim was why are you doing this?

We thought about that for ya. Five were talking by words. You don't want to hear when you're proposing. Honestly. No, you don't hear anything but yes. Yeah. Charlie said of course, which I am wasn't. Yes. But are we? That's it's pretty good bad. Of course, this figure do just what the word. You're just hoping for. Yes. Right? So what you're not hoping for is why are you doing this, eventually? We got to. Yes, but this was one of the costs to my surprising her and I packed the wedding ring and I had little cartoon to

Proposed. You know, we went to Caribbean island but she genuinely didn't see it coming like, Evelyn. I had this like this running joke where she said, why are you doing this? Because she was like, I'm like too young and at the time she was not that young. I mean she was like a fine marriageable age of sunlight like a child, bride situation that she was 28 at the time of proposal that's young. It's a good age. So she said, yes. And then celebrations ensued.

That would probably be fond memory number one of the last nine months for you. Like what else is in there? Related to the podcast? I loved our conversations on, boys and men. I loved, I loved your conversation with John McWhorter. No, that was good. I woke racism. But yeah, the boys I meant stuff. I think was the most eye-opening. And then the other thing I'll say that I don't think I've talked about in this podcast, but

I'm trying to get and we have mail to get him on me. Well, but this guy, James Clear wrote a book called Atomic habits, and that book has changed my life Atomic Habits by James. Clear, Gavin, trying to break couple habits, I've been snoozing too much having to work out as much as I wanted. And I, the third one is, I bite my nails trying to hear that, and he, like, there's a book called The Power habit, very popular. And he like, takes that one step further. And it's very, very tactical which I like and so I'm not perfect but the book is dynamite so that has been

Aussie Game Changer, like, a different perspective on life is rare. I read a book where it's shapes like that. So, that's probably a step for me outside of life event. I'm continuously

tweeting out my conversation with Barbara Walters about how Civil War start in part, because Civil War is trending on Twitter every fourth day. And then I'm like, I had Twitter which by the way. So there was a period when only conservatives were a lot of talk about Civil War and then liberals were like, oh, by talking about that. You're you know, awful. I don't know if you knew that was a thing. I didn't I didn't, I mean don't surprise me. But didn't, you know? The Liberals were like by talking about Civil War. You, are you pausing it? Yeah. You're causing in your terrible, your word.

Words are evil and then now the rules are like, hey, you know, Civil Wars on the table and Barbara Walter was one of the reasons for this. There were two author, Stephen Marsh

and Barbara Walter. So Stephen Marshall book was the next civil war and Barbara Walters how Civil Wars start. So they're kind of companion books. Barbara Walter had the advantage of being like a PhD in political science where she like unpacked all of the trends and she yeah, we're not starting them internationally. So that framework, I found to be very very helpful. John McWhorter. Certainly mean that like, that, that do to the extent that there's someone who explained the problem of

Kind of the work this thing. John McWhorter is the man, you know, he like, spelled it out for me in a particular way and the most controversial thing he said, was that he compared it to a religion and that is Echo, religious kind of disposition. And if you question it and you and he said, it's like, look, you don't try and like, convert someone out of religion, like you just try and work around them and I thought that was highly interesting. Different people call, but someone else called it off.

So, the religious left. So you're right. That was highly powerful convo. During this time, I've been running around trying to build a forward party and the forward party. I'm happy to say is going to have some really exciting announcements later this summer but we're on the verge of being the third biggest political party in the country by resources within a year of founding which I'm super excited about. Yep. And it was all because of this podcast, I know. I mean

Guest she has helped I'm sure like you know I'm sure it did help the boys and men control particularly proud of you know I think I mentioned that the op-ed I wrote In The Washington Post. Yeah is now going to be taught in AP English in classrooms around the country as part of like an English textbook that stuff does warm my heart where you have there's some stuff you've done and even I've done like I've had a couple people message me like I'm I've had a professors like I'm going to teach some of the stuff in

You're in your book and I and in my book and then your book for sure. I get a lot more of those and you're hurt your warrant people book. So Academia is going a different, especially higher Academia is going a different higher. Ed's going different direction but there are some

Pockets of hope. I'd say in terms of people studying what we're talking about little bit which is good study Longshot study forward. I think it's a good book if you're running for office, doesn't remember her from Florida podcast, generational change. Geez. I like the way she ran. She raised a ton of money. She got me and she got a good number of votes. She got like, 27 percent of the vote in that primary, which is really impressive for a first-time candidate. Yep, against gen pearls, great Debbie Wasserman Schultz, SS, great.

Yeah, she did a lot of her votes because everybody hates her so much. Yeah, she's like I was running a candidate. Like the my book talks about like are the problems. We had were problems that a lot of people have across the country. They're running for first time that does bring me hope that there are people who take kind of what we say, seriously, even though we're not always the most serious at times and but also in the midst of a lot of nonsense going on, you know,

So I talked to Rich, dude, I know. And he said that, he loves to recruit losing congressional candidates to the nonprofit's that he runs because he thinks that the folks who run are really talented often, they lose, you know, now because they're like not great candidates, but just because of various structural things and he thinks that the skillset lends itself, very, very nicely to Growing nonprofits. I'd argue it lends itself to a lot of

Things. Like if you can run with your head held high and outperform where you're expected, which is essentially zero. Right. I mean if you I mean if you can get critical mass let's call more than ten to twenty percent of the vote and some of these things and that's remarkable you can raise their money. So the hustle and drive and Leadership and resilience and scrappiness. Like those things, translate almost any industry, right? Agree. Like the nonprofit sector would help a lot because you're always doing more with less and being told no a lot. Well, so check out check.

How can he go both directions. So I ran a non-profit for six and a half years that you supported and you started a non-profit, fun game. The the podcast on Monday was with Daniel dobrowski who ran a combo for profit. Nonprofit piece works for ten years. And I don't know if you heard on the podcast but he was like, hey this thing was hand to mouth for 10 years. We were you know budgeted two million, three million, and he starts kind and it just takes off like a rocket more or less.

Then now it's, you know, multibillion-dollar business. And so there's something about like, I ran a non-profit and like it's very difficult for nonprofits to grow past a certain point, like the management Acumen, necessary, to develop and grow in. Org is really significant and a friend of mine said to me, Bessie said nonprofits run on passion. Yeah. So you're typically very passionate about the cause, and the org. And so, in my case run nonprofit or six and a half years conclude,

That the problems are too big for my nonprofit to ever really solve. And so it's like, well how could you solve them reorganize, the economy? How do you do that run for president? What are the rules running for president at cetera? So I have seen people go from pissed off nonprofit founder to political candidate because they're like, hey, like these problems are too big for my nonprofit to address the other direction. So this is one of the fundamental issues that we have in life and this is something I struggle with personally. I think even you sure

With, so check it out, CEO of private company, where your life is normal. You talk every once in a while, but it's not your main Jam like, you know, nonprofit you run something, but you also have to go around and sell people raise money doing a bunch of stuff. Yes. And then political candidate, it's like all of your stuff is external facing in your like barely an operator at. All right? Now, the problem that happens to us is that if you have someone who's in the political game for too long and then,

Then you say, hey like you're not going to be doing politics anymore because you lost your seat, right? Half of them right now become lobbyists because it's like, okay, I've got these relationships like the this marketability in a particular way but like now, I don't know how to run shit. You know, I'm not like, you know, like I mean this is this is actually the with with tech. Now like the software platforms you're using to run our organization change every three to five years, right? So, and

And by the way, the average member of Congress is, you know, 58 Senators 64. So, if you're losing your race and your come out and like a 50-something, year-old, and some, how long you are, team slack account, like your toast. Yeah. Someone's going to pay you half million dollars to call you old friends. And, you know, cajole them into taking meetings, it's like oh, that seems like a better gig then. Yeah. You know, certain how to use Monday or using your learning. He's one of these project management tools at all that startups use. Yeah, so one of the issues that the political thing and this is one reason why you are heading

to Industry in the way that you are, which is by the way, going to be very wholesome and very entrepreneurial and very Scrappy and the rest of it. But you see that if you go too deep down this road, you're like oh shit. Like I'm not going to be an operator anymore, correct. I'm going to be like talking head Communicator person who then and there's a market for that but the market you know is not as good. Frankly, as if you can run chit you're like a genuine executive learn that too because you've gone in the

No game. Like, and like the field of, let's call it democracy reform, right? And there's a lot of people named nameless, but there, they look good on our website or on a panel or XYZ. But when you ex trying to get me to do anything it, they're not that helpful to have some connections but it's really they can get coffee with some people. They can't get resources at table. They can't operate, effectively, they can't Market effectively, it's just, you know. Yeah, completely agree.

The other thing is, like, one of my biggest learnings running a non-profit was

How much like the, there's the good idea, right? The Innovation and I thought that would carry the day and there's so much more of like people's mentality than perceptions and other things that get in the way. Like, one of the biggest things I was told, when I first started to shoot up was like I had other nonprofit folks. We're like we don't need more education. Nonprofits, like please stop. And I was like, I think you missed the point. My goal is to the reason I wanted to start his not because we need more of these correct. But we can actually unlock actual

Me into this nonprofit space. Would you guys are all fighting for and don't do it very well but I mean, I think I learned that we ran for office. I learned that in non-profit where it's not just Innovation like Venture for America. Wonderful idea of your issues were people and hesitations in like getting buy-in and approval and you know it wasn't just you couldn't just be as you couldn't have a smart idea and when the day you had to do a lot more around it, what your friend Mike tarullo said to me that I

actually pushed me in a certain direction might really got me to run for president of states without even knowing it, and here's how. So, I'm hanging out in Venture for America, HQ with Mike tarullo who's a schoolmate of Zach's. Back in the day of my name. Is your clo. He's like your yeah, cont, I type. Yeah. And and so I get asked to speak at a conference and I'm like, you know, is my speaking at this conference really going to help us and then what Mike said to me was it was it was Andrew for Venture for America to get here.

You have to be up here. It's like for Venture for America to become a thing. Andrew Yang has to become a thing. Yes. And so when Mike said that I thought, wow, he might be right. But also hearing from my team that it was better for them for me to go to some conference and spend a couple days away because like that that helps us achieve our goals was like permission. You know, I felt like kind of a dick being like, hey I'm going to go Jerk it at this conference for a couple of days. You guys like,

Do your thing, but then when he was saying like, helps us, know that helps us like you were trying to elevate. Your profile is good for this organization and generally speaking. He's right because you needed someone to hook an idea on to, and despite learning that over six years at Venture for America, I still wanted to not build the presidential campaign around, Andrew Yang in part because I was running for president that

Has kind of rash but I you know, it was named Ubi 2020. Initially, the first name the campaign was Ubi 2020 is like I don't think it works. Yeah. It's like you know you wouldn't have logos. Are you bi 22? Yeah, so that I can vouch for this. And so then we tested it and then Yang 2020 came back much better. And, and, but again, even the fact that I had to make a decision on that meant that I really had, not learned my lesson. Like I already learned this lesson and then I need to relearn it again because like,

Still wanted the ideas to lead. I like, naturally while the idea is to lead, but like, it's not the the even with a forward party. It's like the idea is spot-on. It's like a, a major third party, like we all know. We need it, 62% of Americans want it? Like etcetera, etcetera. But then everyone still is like, oh, Andrew Yang. Let's say I was some no-name that could not credibly run for president and get, you know, last, I checked something like five to ten percent of the vote. Then you know what you would think about the Ford party. Absolutely nothing because you never heard of it.

Just because, like, you know, there are half a dozen other, these little parties. I got started by people, you've never heard of and you never will hear of. So, so the fact that I'm, someone who could credibly launch and run and change the math, he's probably should know means that like that, that the party then becomes something that people will be like, oh, I should pay attention to this, because that's the way the American system works is like, nobody cares, unless you're a threat, unless you can be real.

So in my case, it's like Joe. So one of the ironic things too is like, if I were to just run around with my hand up in the air and the Bible, in the other being like, I will not run for president. Like, duh du du, du du no one would believe me. Anyway, you know? I mean, there's like, there's like, like, you know, it's like, you know. So, as it is, and like, God's honest truth, like, I have no idea what I'm gonna do and I'm like, just like open-minded about, like, you know, just trying to help the country. So, like, if it felt like, it'd be good for the country, I'd like, you know, do what I could

if getting behind someone else's, you know, the way which my instinct is that it's probably going to be supporting the party whatever that means, you know I'm we're having someone on the podcast next week who like he's he's definitively talking about running for president, a third-party ticket so you know that like there are people that I'm talking to that seem pretty excellent. Yeah. Well let me ask you so in mind.

My number one draft pick, you probably know is Mark Cuban. So you know that that is what I think. He's a good

Let me ask you this. So politics and nonprofits. We've learned firsthand. He's like about the founder right? And it falls around the person helps the narrative. But you said this, I think you said this on the trail a few times I want to dive in and it's like if you're a CEO of the for-profit company you're out there trying to get as much press in awareness and build up your own profile. Usually it makes you a terrible CEO. Your company's you want to shit and that's 9 times out of 10. Is that

is the difference because

Some of these nonprofits in political candidates aren't actually doing anything. They're just kind of pushed moving shit around and because when you're running an opera business, you actually have to do something and make the numbers work. All right, here's the thing. And I've now been this in a couple of different capacities. So when I was running for president, the highest use I could have is to do pressed and Chase coverage and do things that

Of energy because the enemy is oblivion really, you know, like you have to be enemies irrelevance Oblivion. Yeah. So now in a company's perspective, in theory, the company is delivering something of value. And if you're doing that and it's significant enough, then you could spend all of your time honing, operations, and trying to get you value, proposition better and managing your team and organization and that would be a much better use of your time.

I'm then press that might result in growth. Sure to be oblivious and make money and companies if you will. Now there are some companies that go into growth mode where then and the one that jumps jumps in my mind. For whatever reason is we work? Yeah. Wear it, you know, when a company goes into expansion mode and then you just like running around trying to and their their case, it was raised money. Yeah. But it can be that sometimes you're raising awareness and this is something that

Have done for, for political campaigns, sorted for organizations. And so you do what the organization needs, and if your company is operating, well, then what it needs is for you to mind the operation. Right? You know, go in, I mean, you can have a great CEO, I mean like that, that would be phenomenal. So true, you could run suit UPS operations fantastically. It doesn't always move the needle sometimes on the presidential,

Not at all realistically. Yeah, if you sat there in like got your team running, like a well-oiled machine but like there was no press coming in and no like the rest of it then your campaign dies. Yeah. What's funny to Zach? Is that and you know, you remember this about me. It's like if someone asked me, what was the happiest time of my life professionally? It was like, categorically, just like anonymously running, a private company, life made sense was great. You know, I met Evelyn during that time, we were dating just yukking it up, I could make decisions to do something and it would be, you know,

Frank that happen the next day and it was done. I mean I look back fondly on my time running Venture for America but it was a very difficult job. Yes. You know really proud of it. I look back fondly on my time running for president but wow, that was like fucking hard. It was hard or parties. Not easy. Ford party. The podcast is Fun. The podcast. I was doing great at it, though. We're like, I appreciate you guys listening. We're not, we're not the next Joe Rogan podcast mean so. So Zach's been a real, a

anchor, my brilliance.

So I've been asked to give a couple of commencement speeches, so I've been thinking about guidance for the Next Generation. I gave a commencement address at Columbia Law School where I graduated from. Yeah. And did you see you? I did. So I try to thread the needle between being serious and inspirational and funny and funny because I don't know. It's like it just did not seem so. And I confess when I was there, I was like, oh shit. Like, you know, do I have to play the straight? Or am I gonna sister?

Victor trying to be funny. So better in time. Be funny. Oh, thank you, man. So, I'm considering, and people online can, like, talk to me about this, but I'm considering leaning into the humor in part because I feel like America needs some levity because things are fucking depressing. I would support the Andrew Yang stand-up career, dude. I like I have half a dozen standing offers from various clubs in New York, just to show up and do like, surprise sets got a bit. I mean, like, I, you know,

no, there's a market for political humor.

Cuz a lot of people you can't talk about politics anywhere else. I was just that I was it is I was at a cocktail party this weekend, housewarming party and we were talking about politics or time out to scientists and I said something, I don't love DeSantis, I think there's some stuff he's done, it's pretty awful. But in Florida, he has bumped the minimum wage, which I think he's objectively a good thing and the Democrat people Democrats like that. And he's but, you know, four hundred plus million dollars in a fighting climate change in Florida. Also a good thing

and I mentioned that, and it was as if

I was a root of all evil. I've regretted it immediately, it was awful and we can't talk about that stuff anymore. We used to be able to within reason. So one, man. Those are some, some too many facts on your side there is dark. Yeah. I was like why do people like to size the scientists and is most popular governor in the country give or take amongst especially amongst moderates. Not just the right and I'm like why? So I