We probably shouldn't box II box. I had my boxing card and boxed, pretty consistently various times. I'm not very good. You don't get a nose like this doing yoga. I feel like I can rule the world. I know, I could be what I want to put my all in it, like a Days on the Road Less Traveled, never looking back.
Injury huberman was just on the podcast. If you don't know who he is, I'm gonna try and describe them. Very simply. He's this guy who works at Stanford. I believe he's a neuroscience.
Actor huberman is his name and he's got this YouTube video series in a podcast called huberman Labs, where, basically, he picks one topic, like sleep stress building muscle depression, addiction. And he'll do like an hour to two hours of just talking into the camera and talking to his mic and explains very easy ways to understand what it means and how you can overcome or like what supplements or what exercises you can do to address. He's only been around for 10 months and he's already one of the top 10 most popular podcast. He's everywhere.
YouTube. This guy is a badass. We just had on the podcast. I'm kind of like Star Trek a little bit cuz I'm such a fan of his, I think you're really going to dig this. It's a little bit Health focused towards the end. We get into a little bit more business stuff. But if you're into business, you have to be healthy. Otherwise, you're not gonna be able to perform well, and so we talked a lot about that. We talk a lot about morning routines and these aren't just like, well, I write my journal. It's like, well, no, if you do this based off of science based on peer review, research. If you do this, you're going to feel this way and that's going to help with
X Y and Z. So it's like kind of a evidence research-based podcast that we've just done.
It's pretty freaking cool. So enjoy it. Ben. What do you think? He just Sean use the term shortcuts. He's really good for giving little hacks. I just feel like I took away like six to ten little hacks. I can use in my life that is going to make it better. Mostly biologically. Like it's going to actually improve my sleep or employ improve my ability to focus and things like that. So I think there's a lot of great little nuggets for people in it. So check it out. And by the way, we are giving
A thousand dollars to six people what you have to do is you go to rate this podcast.com slash MFM. So that's MF M as in my first million. So rate this podcast.com slash MFM and leave us a review. All you do is leave. Leave us a review and leave if it's a negative review. Tell us how you think about anything, one star, five star. I don't care, do whatever you want. And at the end of the month, we're going to pick, like I think six of them and give $1000 away. So right this podcast.com slash MFM write something cool. Write something funny, maybe if you
Pick out what will will pick you. Let us know what you think. That podcast, enjoy the episode. Do check notifications on
YouTube. I do not.
Okay. So let me tell you something really quick. So about two weeks ago. So I'm a big Bay Area, punk rock fan. So I listen to like ice live in San Francisco for years. I listen to like old rancid old green day, and I was looking at an old interview with Tim Armstrong from rancid and it has like very little views and I was loving this interview.
I've got a comment how much I loved it and I scroll down and you were the first comment on there and I replied to you it. So I thought that was funny. We have similar interests. I did not expect to see you there on an old Tim
Armstrong from
Yeah, I'm a huge. Rancid and Tim Armstrong fan. I mean without taking up too much of our time on this. I've never I've never met him personally, but it growing up. I was a Operation Ivy fan, big fan of a band called crimp Shrine, whole East Bay, Punk scene, and then rancid came out and actually Tim. And Matt Freeman had a band called downfall in between. You can find some of those tracks and I love those tracks. I just
It. They cover such a huge range of styles and they've just done amazing things. And yeah, so if there's any content out there that's you know, rancid acoustic or downfall, rare rancid tracks. I scoured the internet for them. If I don't know about him, send him to me. And as I devour that stuff
and we'll have Sean kind of do like an intro on you. But really quick. This is one of the reasons why I think people like you and why your podcast has taken off because you're this intellectual Powerhouse.
But you look like an athlete. Yeah, you kind of have this like punk rock's. I do like you got to tell that you have that to you. And I think that you're just like a really like eclectic interesting person. And I think that's why. So basically Sean, you can do the intro but you've had this podcast that just launched like a year ago, you're already the biggest guy. There is or top 10 top five. It's pretty amazing. And I think that's one of the reasons why why you're kicking ass is because you are quite eclectic and very different from what we're used to. All right, so when I started the hustle, I used to
Look at how many people had cold email, the nor to buy ads in our email. I would look at how many people I got the phone and then I would look at how many people followed up and how many people signed a contract? And then how many people actually paid and bought ads? I thought I was a genius because I figured out very specifically, how many people I had to call to get X dollars. And I was like, great. All I gotta do is call this many people. It made my life so much easier than just guessing. Well, turns out, this is a thing that has existed forever. It's called a pipeline, and if you do it, well, you can predict how much money you're going to make every single.
A month and so you just kind of go out and get more sales people or you go out and do more cold calling or cold emailing or you create more content and get more leads. Whatever. When I was doing it. I was doing it by hand and that was a huge pain in the butt turns out. There's something that does this for you. It's called HubSpot the HubSpot CRM platform. So with the CRM platform, it's pretty amazing. You do a few things. The first is forecasting, so you can get a bird's-eye view of your entire pipeline. You can see what's coming around the corner. You can see how big the quarter is going to be how certain months are going inspect deals to see if you're on track. And the second thing that's really important. I see.
By hand, and then I learned how to use HubSpot and it kind of changed the game for me, but you could do custom report building. So you can see where most of your sales are coming from. What type of tactics are working where to go get more customers. It's pretty amazing. So check it out. You can learn more about HubSpot CRM platform and how it can connect your business together. Helps about.com., Check it out. We can kind of like set the scene. So we have Andrew huberman here, doctor huberman and known for huberman lab, and you're a neuroscientist.
Tist. Professor at Stanford as you have a whole bunch of interesting podcast, and I've seen you everywhere recently. So I don't know if this is like, I don't know if you have hired an amazing PR person. I don't know if I'm just late to the party, but you went from, I've never heard of you before, like, three months ago. Let's say to, I only hear about you. My YouTube feed is basically just giving me more and more your content every day. So, is that, is that a new thing or? Or am I just like discovering you now?
It's
Every new thing, I mean to just give you the quick Arc leaving out all the pre Academia stuff, you know, I did my training in neuroscience and in physiology things, like temperature, regulation and things of that sort and over the years. I worked on a number of different problems. Formally meaning in Laboratories, as a PhD student, postdoc Junior professor and tenured professor things like stress and regeneration. And what happened was right around 2015. I started getting curious about how scientific information
in is making it out into the general public, but there really wasn't it, a cause or a venue for doing that. There were these meetings, like big Summit meetings and things like that. That weren't really my flavor to be honest. They're perfectly fine, but they were typically go something like, you know, yoga class group meditation, one talk by my product by my book, and then people go. And so what happened was in 2019, have a good friend. His name is Pat dossett. He's a Wharton grad, former Navy SEAL operator.
Did nine years in the field teams as good friend of mine. We swim together. He much further ahead than I, of course, you know, those guys definitely have extra gears. I've, you know, seen that and Pat also has a company called made for, which is a behavioral health company, Who start with Blake, mycoskie whose founder of Tom's shoes. So what happened was in 2019? Pat asked me a question. We're literally getting out of the water. We done early morning, cold water swim and he said, you know, what are you gonna do in 20?
19 to make the world a better place. And I was like, well, you know, I'm trying to figure out neural regeneration stress and how to sleep better my lab. He said, yeah, but are you really going to do? He was kind of poking at me? And I said, well, you know, I think it'd be fun to just teach science on the internet and just put quality information out there because I don't see that. So I started doing that in 2019, little short post pretty nerdy stuff mostly on Instagram and people seem to like it and then in 2000 and I got a book deal in 2010.
20:19. I thought I would do what most academics to write a book, seller book, and then 2020 hit and a couple things happen. One is, I realize there was a tremendous need for people to have the tools for managing stress and circadian rhythms and sleep and managing mental workload and Etc because everyone was locked down and stressed out and confused as was I frankly but I had access to these tools. So I started disseminating the tools by going on podcast and on Instagram and then eventually
Ee the podcasts led to a you know, the Rogan appearance certainly had a lot to do with it. A rich, roll appearance that did well at also and Lex Friedman at the end of 2020, Great podcaster. And also a great friend of mine. Now said you should start a podcast. So January of twenty Twenty-One bought the mics set it up. I looked to my skateboarding punk rock past. I have a friend named Mike bleh, back known as bleh back photo in the skateboard in action, sports Community shoots all the stuff of gin.
910 Park driving rally cars of Danny Way, Tony Hawk, although they're only a few superstars of skateboarding and Action Sports Photography. Mike happens to be one of them and he said, let's build an aesthetic that kind of represents you. I always wear the same black shirt. I don't 26 of these, that's not for the podcast. You know, I always keep my hair short and just you know, this is me on any day. It's just that the kind of camera showed up and I started sitting down and saying, well, what would I do in a classroom? If someone was interested in stress and how to manage stress? Well, I
I would give for lectures on that. And so a big feature of the podcast, that's a little different is that than most podcast is that I try and stay on theme and I try and keep it like I would in a classroom but then offer a lot of tools which is a little different. So that's really how it happened and no, no PR firm know, you know, big No-No contract signed everything we've got with my team. How did you get on road to one page? Yeah,
how'd you get on Rogan? Because that was a big obviously, inflection point and then that
Ferris that leads to more and more. So how do you done real good?
Yeah, that was all this year. So then, well, two things about that. I'll just want to make sure I close the hatch on. So I haven't written this book. I haven't released it for two reasons. One, is that in 2020? I didn't want to sell anything. I was coming to the table as an academic with a tenured position and a salary. Frankly. We don't make big salaries, even at Stanford. Yes, if my Dean is listening, the salaries at Stanford are not in keeping with the cost of living in the
A area, which is why most people sit on company boards and things of that sort. So, you do science for the love of it, but I didn't want to talk about my work and be self-promotional. I really love learning and teaching and I have one mission in my professional life, and that's to share the magic and the utility of biology. I mean, that's for me, just fills me up and talking about my work is fun. We can do that if you want, but there's so much terrific work out there. So what happened was the second Rogan appearance is Josie.
You know, humans doing this podcast thing and people seem interested in it. Let's get em back on to share some of this information and but how did it happen in the first place? Well, I have a good friend and business partner at my podcast. His name is Rob Moore, and no, he's not taking new clients. So because he no longer does what I'm about to describe which is that Rob came from the world of PR, but then he got really interested in podcasts. He's in his mid-30s and he started
A podcast called the fight with Teddy, Atlas. He loves boxing. He really liked Eddie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I listen to that
every week. Yeah. Okay, your work. You work with that guy. Yeah, but he's out with the thick Boston accent, right?
That's can ride out. Who's a friend? Who I met through Rob Rob. You're not going to see. You're not going to find, he sits behind an email while and he's a close friend of mine that, you know, October this time last year, October November of 2020. We went for lunch and
I said let's start a podcast. Lex things that we've got traction with a podcast and I think he's right. And he said great. Let's do it. Let's buy the Mike's. Lets, you know, we built the studio with her own hands. Mike showed up got the DC team in there because they're friends with of mine, DC Shoes, DC, skateboarding, and they helped me, you know, create an aesthetic that we thought would work for make people feel like they were in a classroom and, you know, Rob was the one who connected me to the person who connected me to Joe.
So there's a little bit of eye since this is a public venue. There's a little bit of a wall there, just because they get flooded with requests. And I'll be honest, you know, I don't know what their process is. I think that they have a process and, and if I'm not privy to it, I think that what's beautiful about the Rogan podcast having been a guest on there and obviously a big fan is that, they, I think, what you see is the real deal, you know, Joe sits down with people that he'd like to have a meal with and or conversation within has a conversation and
And the human appetite for that is obviously huge people seem to really resonate with that. And of course Joe is a tremendous reason. So he's been tremendously helpful, Tim Ferriss, Rich Roll and Lex Friedman. And I will say that Lex has been my kind of Guiding Light in this whole process about bringing certain elements of my own person and personality to things, you know, yeah, I am I mean, this is going to sound weird to anyone who's looking to this for science information, but
It might not make sense. But Sam you'll get it, and I don't know other people will too, which is like, yeah, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool punk rocker. I grew up in that. And if this, that scene, I think, people think of is like loud, music loud, clothes loud, everything that seen at its, at its Essence. The reason I gravitated towards early is that it's very varied. It's about showing up like heartful, strong. It's not a, it's never a victim stance, but it's not an aggressive stance, but it's not a weak stance either. And I, for me, it just resonated and so, so
Let's near the opening track of my podcast. For instance is a song. I don't want to get the copyright people on me. So that's familiar from the punk rock culture. And I just wanted to bring all that forward. And I think Lex was the one who really said, pick two or three things that you really feel represent, your relationship to science and that it gives you energy for that. Lex's is a genius. I have to say what you see there with the jacket and tie and all the interviews. Lex were
works so hard. He thinks so hard about where he's going with all this and he just interviewed the director of the National Institutes of Health Francis Collins. That is not an easy grab. So in any case that's a long-winded. I don't tend to be succinct. So I'll
stop. Yeah, I want to ask you about. I'll ask you about Lex in a second, but for those who are listening and don't know who you are. Basically, I have your channel up right now. So, your first video was launched, 10 months ago. Your video is basically you and your
This is weird to say to you, but you're like a good-looking. Dude. You've got like a goatee. Look, kind of like a football player. You're what you're where you're wearing a black shirt with a black background. You're pretty serious. And you're just sitting there for like, 60 Minutes to almost two hours. Sometimes in your explaining things that sound complicated like how your nervous system works and changes master. Your sleep using failures movements at balance to learn faster. So these are like things that are somewhat complicated but you sit down and you look at the camera for one to two hours and you tell you
Do you explain what what it all means and then you do something. That's interesting where it says like, all right. So how do you take advantage of this and apply this and use this and your long-winded on purpose because you said you're like I'm not gonna I need you to know exactly how this works. So you can decide what you want to do versus me. Just telling you exactly what to do. Yeah, right. Like about. That's right. You can simplify something so people can understand it without dump.
Remove their own agency to time to dive in.
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for that description. You know, my like I said that the goal and really my purpose in life. I know mission statements and purpose and kind of their kind of cliche but it is really as I get. So I have this process that I've used for a long time, which is, I like to just pay attention to what puts energy into my body, the music, like I'll hear a song, you're familiar with this. You hear a song? Like yes.
Yes, you know, and just fills you with energy whether or not, that's dopamine noradrenaline, or we could dissect that, but that's not the point. But that energy is a, is a neural energy. It doesn't have to do with calories. It Hat doesn't but that energy is your Source, right? Like it in the Eastern philosophies. They would call it Chi or whatever it is. So I've always sensed what I really enjoy and for me learning, cool information and sharing, it is what I want to do. So what I try and do is paint a tapestry at the beginning of. Here's a topic like stress, or
Leap or dopamine or ADHD, or eating disorders, or whatever, and armed people with the language and make them realize that the nomenclature is just words. We can replace some of those words and let's get a functional definition of things going and then once they understand how things work, a little bit, some of the, the algorithms, so to speak. Then let's talk about what you can do with this and how you can use light to change your circadian rhythms or particular patterns of breathing that are grounded in.
G2 distressed rapidly, Etc. And so, yeah, and can you explain this
first video? So, your first video is only Sean was saying that like your, you came everywhere. You're everywhere very quickly. Your first one was only 10 months ago. That first video has 650 2,000 views. It's a slick looking thumbnail. Can you walk me through? How much did you spend to build that studio? And like, how did the first traction? Do you think come to this video? Your very first video 650,000 the very next one. Looks like a month later.
A million views. The next one, 630. I mean, you hit right away. You're sure you're hitting right away. How did that
happen? Yeah, that's a good question. So, a big part of that, what I don't think it was the thumbnails because actually we were told by YouTube that our thumbnails weren't legible. I had these fancy anatomical drawings on it. You know that now we've changed them a bit. We've learned some things, you know, faces do better than images Etc. But if your thumbnail,
Is that are really clickbait ER thumbnails or someone's going like, where they said, the wider the eyes. The more people click and kind of crazy stuff. We didn't do that because I want people to know that I'm here with a serious, you know, serious information because I'm serious about them. It's sort of, like, why always the black shirt. These are actually the black. I'm literally on 26 of these that I like, these particular shirts. I'm not trying to get picked up by the, by the maker. So I won't mention it. But I've always worn them. I like like them but
at least they're it.
Always wear black typically because it's easy to hide if you're fat or
wrinkles, right or tattoos. Not that I'm confessing that I have any tattoos, but the, if I wasn't acting Knuckles tattoos, I would just do it, but I'm not, but the and kids. Yes, you should be able to dress. However, you want, do whatever you want. But that's not the way the world Works. People are always evaluating. So you decide it's your gamble. I always say authenticity is not the same as oversharing these days. I think there's a big tendency to think.
Oh because you can deadlift 500 pounds that you should put that on the internet one. So this is part of my answer, which is that by the end of 2020, the Instagram Channel had grown to several hundred thousand, but that mind, you took two years and 50 50 podcast, appearances as a guest. So we announced that we were going to launch a YouTube channel to get over there and subscribe. And then we just started, pushing out content, frequency is a big deal.
You know, we do one a week. We may Advance 21 and a shorter one each week next time. But you know, free consistency, you know, not surprisingly counts. And there's consistency of aesthetic to, you know, this building a studio is fairly straightforward. Thank you. Mike playback my good friend. And do you see, I mean, the one thing about skateboarders that they really, really know how to do well, is to create original content in a DIY format. Okay, so, actually,
We mic is out on a shoot right now with Spike Jones, right? So I grew up with, I don't know Spike, but I grew up with a lot of the guys who ride for girl, Mike Spike. Jonze owns girls, a portion of girl skateboards. So I grew up around people that took video of us playing around in the streets on skateboards and made videos that became these iconic things. And so
well, skateboarders were kind of like the first YouTubers, you know, if you look at old trans world or 411 videos or old DC or like the like like what Bama
Going with jackass, you know, it was CKY videos that we were the skaters for the first YouTuber.
That's right, though. They really were and you mentioned 411. So you definitely, you know, 411 is like
no, I still skate. I was just hanging out with Mikey. Mikey Taylor this weekend
professional. Yeah order. Yeah. Yeah. And to be clear because I want to maintain my Integrity with that. Can you I wasn't a great skateboarder. I was okay, Thunder Trucks, put me on out of sympathy. Spitfire, put me on out of sympathy.
Z, but I wasn't going to be one of the big guys. It was just a community. I really felt a part of, and when I went off to college, because my high school girlfriend went to college, I've tripped and fell into biology. I thought I'd be a skateboarder or a firefighter or something was more physical, but I fell in love with Biology and and just that's what I've been doing ever since. But I think the aesthetic, keeping a fairly narrow messaging to, you know, we've turned down every option to make a little bit of extra money doing affiliate codes. I mean, we do have advertising an
Goats, but to just pepper things with you know, advertising everywhere. We just I want people to have a zero cost trusted source for science health and fitness information. Of course, we're not going to get everything exactly right? But to know that if they come to the huberman lab channel that they're going to get information, that's vetted that I've I always consult with, at least two or three colleagues professional in a given area before I do a podcast of just me because
I don't work on ADHD. I know the fair amount about it, but I consult with experts and so I have a kind of Advisory board. So I used the scientific community and the it's a kind of a beautiful ecosystem, where our advertisers are happy. We're happy our, but the main thing is that consumers, get it at zero cost to Consumer and I think that's very different than a book and that's very different than a behind pay wall strategy. I've seen a lot of health and science podcasters who are quite good move their stuff.
On a pay wall because you can make much more money charging ten thirty dollars a month or something. And I like to think that people would be willing to do that for our content. However, I feel best about the fact that, for some kids sitting and halfway across the world, who wants to understand weight training or ADHD, or dopamine or sleep. They just as long as they have an internet connection, they have to tolerate a few ads, but the information is free to
them. Why don't you just bail as a
Dollars a year.
Well, I'm I guess academically masochist because you can't. Well, it's a tree and I'm happy to announce this. Now. I actually took, I love doing research. We have a big project on human stress. We've been working on human fear. I love doing research, and actually a fairly sizable portion of the huberman. Lab podcast, income is going to be donated to research, and to scholarships for students.
I'm not, I'd be very honest. I'm not, I'm not extremely wealthy, nor do I suffer? You know, and I it's money is important. I would say money but can't buy happiness. But it absolutely can buffer stress. No question about that. Anyone who's ever had a significant funds throughout their lifetime, don't won't truly understand that statement, people who haven't will understand exactly what I mean, and I think money is very important. But so is the
item between Academia Public Health and Science, communication, and the private sector. And for the time being, it just makes sense for me to continue to teach at Stanford. I teach medical students in the winter on neuroanatomy. I direct the neuroanatomy course and I really enjoy academic conversations. They're slow, they it's like Laden through steel, one thin layer to time, but what you get too often is a kind of granularity.
It's a process. It's not so much that you get two answers. It's you get to a process of getting two answers and I don't think I'd be happy without doing
that and I talked to a couple people before you came on that. I knew their fans of the Pod and they are. I knew they would be excited to have you on because we mostly this is a business-oriented podcast is why kind of we're asking you some things about the business of how your you became a content creator. How you got your audience? You know, why do you do it? Sean? We've got even, we've got even.
In told them what we do, I guess I did.
I did, I did a little bit of research and I was delighted when you guys asked. I mean, I'm new to Twitter, frankly. I didn't like Twitter when I first got on it was like well people who are really combative compared to Instagram and I think it's the owner to show your face and I'm a very like I'm not an aggressive person, but if somebody goes wants to go toe-to-toe. I still have that in me. I'm not suggesting anyone get violent out there, but people would come at me and on Instagram and serve it will show yourself. Let's go.
Let's have a conversation and, you know, so I don't get into back and forth and comments. I found Twitter to be an incredibly combative neighborhood and then you guys showed up. I was like, oh, wow, I guess there's some nice people in the neighborhood. So sort of like, finding the other punk, rockers and skateboarders. It's like you and me. We got the same thing and we're good. So that's what was the feeling I had and then it turns out that's actually
the case.
Twitter, you get rewarded every Network rewards you for a different behavior. And I'm Twitter you get rewarded for for wit which is like the puck plus side. So, you know, being witty and 140 characters, but then on the other side, it's basically, you know, if you have the sharpest insult at somebody you also get rewarded and you don't have to show your face and there's all these are the benefits and so so it brings out a different side. It's actually YouTube used to be this way to the YouTube comments. I don't know if people remember this, but YouTube comments used to be the running joke as like, what is the most Cesspool of
Toxic commentary that exists. It was called the YouTube comments and now YouTube comments are extremely. I don't know what they changed in the algorithm or the flagging or whatnot. But YouTube comments are on the whole, you know, either funny or supportive of what now, they really change that tick-tocks doing a good job of that too. But it was I
wanted something about comments before I forget, certain interrupt, but Lisa V business because I know that's your main audience is one thing that I did on Instagram early on and that I do on YouTube is comment sections are great.
Great, but better to make them interactive, so I actively request and we read every single comment. I say, tell me but give me give us feedback would also give us suggestions and give us ideas about future podcast. And then I've devoted entire episodes. We haven't done one in a while. But to what we call office hours, which is where I go through the most frequently asked questions and address those. So now there's an incentive to ask to put stuff in the comments and I think that's a really good non-combative use of the comment section and we of course still get
Some crazy stuff in the comments and people can come bat it, but they should just know that we don't actually read those. No, I'm kidding. We read
them. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to talk about a couple things, one was what we talked about. Now. How did you, how did you break out? What, how did you get your start? And I think it's great. You know, I teach science on the Internet is such a simple. A simple like sort of philosophy, simple, you know, business statement of what do I do? What am I here to do? And then the mission, I enjoyed that as well, but I wanted to actually go through some of those Greatest Hits. So some of the reasons that you
You've grown in popularity is that you put out nuggets that are interesting to people. And when I was talking to friends, saying you were coming on, they said, you know, we asked a lot of the kind of like, oh, you know, we have a billionaire on the podcast. Hey, you're super successful. What's your morning routine? And they tell us all, you know, here's what I do in the morning, you know, and people sort of equate, that to, if I do this, I too will become a billionaire, which is obviously not the right way to think about it, but I think, if I ask you about your morning routine, which I'm guessing is it centered around Health Mental Health Fitness.
And sort of regulating your body that that actually will be applicable to more people. So take us through. What is the, what is the morning routine? I know you've talked about this on the some other pods, but I bet the majority of our audience has not listened to all your stuff. So, you know, these are the greatest hits let's do older.
Yes. So I wake up for me. That's usually somewhere around somewhere between 5:30 and 6:30, depending on how early I went to sleep. I wake up and I do Anna.
Assessment of whether or not I feel rested or not, most days. The answer is. No, just because of Life staying up, too. Late stress, etcetera. So, I do a 10 to 30 minute, Yoga Nidra session. First thing in the morning, Yoga, Nidra is a passive listening. You can find these Yoga Nidra links on YouTube. There's one, which is ten minute Yoga Nidra, there's one that actually made for put out for free called an SDR.
On sleep deep breath. That's a 30-minute one. It's a script where you just listen, it brings your brain into a state. That's like, that pseudo sleep after that 10 or 30 minute, Yoga Nidra. I feel like I've slept as much as I need to sleep. It's a really remarkable reset and it it avoids, your brain going into the state of planning and organization, but we call duration path and outcome in the neural circuitry world and keeps it in that kind of liminal state of adjusting and there are some interesting data.
Wished showing that these Yoga Nidra. Meditations. If you will, are, can upregulate some of the neurotransmitters in the brain, including dopamine that make you prepared for action. And so, they're very restorative, especially in the absence of complete sleep. If I feel great, I might just get out of bed. The first thing is, always an have to be careful because it lists every step because sometimes people say, wait, he doesn't even go to the bathroom in the morning. I'm I mean, obviously I go right foot left foot to the bathroom, then I use the restroom then
Downstairs. I drink water. I hydrate, and I go outside and get some sunlight in my eyes for 10 to 30 minutes. Foundational, absolutely critical practice, when I don't do it for more than two days in a row, I start messing up all sorts of aspects of my life and most people are not doing this. Even on cloudy days, do it. Don't wear sunglasses. Unless you have a medical reason why you need to. It's fine to wear corrective lenses or contacts. You don't need to stare directly at the
One or see the sunrise. And these are the questions. I most often get this is why I'm hitting these as bullet points. And if you wake up before the sun rises flip on as many lights as you can in your space, if you want to be awake in your artificial light environment and then once the sun is out, go outside, I don't care. If you're in the depths of Scandinavian winter, the Sun comes out at some point. Some people might need a daylight simulator, but the discussion about daylight simulators is usually an excuse to avoid having to just go outside.
Get sunlight in your eyes for 10 to 30 minutes. You can check your phone if you want or bring the newspaper, if people still read those or a book, I usually bring a journal and I write down some things that I want to do that day and try and make sure that I'm clearing away some of the Clutter. If you have a dog, you could do this while walking Etc. And then I sometimes will combine this with a walk optic flow. When you're just walking through space, not looking at anything like your phone or anything. In particular, that optic flow is known to suppress a circuit in the
big system that involves the threat detection centers. It is very calming to walk through space and it reduces your overall levels of anxiety, many people just being indoors, not getting sunlight, not getting enough, sleep life is stressful. They're not doing this. So basically, all of that can be accomplished in one hour, its wake up Yoga Nidra for 10 to 30 minutes, use the bathroom drink some water, of course, all the basic
biological function about theanine and coffee.
Okay, so I don't ingest theanine during the day. I
Just it as part of a sleep cocktail before sleep. Some people will take l-theanine with coffee. It's now in many energy drinks because it takes away some of the Jitters that it's a mild sedative and it takes away some of the Jitters that caffeine can induce. I don't drink any caffeine until 90 minutes or ideally, 120 minutes after I've woken up for the following reason during sleep. You well during wakefulness, you and the longer you're awake.
Adenosine builds up in your system. Caffeine is an adenosine antagonist. Functionally. I realize it's a competitive Agonist for you afficionados, but it basically blocks the adenosine receptor functionality, so to speak but when that caffeine wears off, you're going to get a big crash because there's gonna be a surplus of adenosine by waiting 90 minutes to two hours to ingest. Caffeine 90 minutes to two hours after waking to ingest caffeine. It's a little bit of a struggle to learn how to do this, but your natural adenosine system that adenosine caper
Down very, very low as a consequence of the, you don't get that rebound in the afternoon. I drink mate, a yerba mate tea. I love it. There's a great book. I don't like that. The really Smoky ones. I have no business relationship to any yerba mate company, by the way, but the one I love is but I don't know who this person is, or if it's even a person's Anna Park. It's a really delicious. When it comes to loose leaf, and it's very high caffeine content. So you don't need very much of it. And it also has a lot of what's called glp-1.
Cook on like peptide one, which is actually being used now as an anti, diabetes and obesity drug. There's all sorts of great things about glp-1. Up-regulates, dopamine receptors, Etc. So I'll drink mate, starting about 90 minutes after I'm awake, and then that's kind of my morning. But after the walk, I go inside, I see I do try to avoid social media at that point. Maybe a quick check of ten minutes. I set all even set an alarm and then
Anna.
On a phone or computer
typically on a phone. I'd like to move more to the computer, but I'm in transit a lot these days and you have to be thoughtful obviously, but I think maybe 10 minutes on social media, but I want social media to continue to be a pleasure and because of the dopamine system and we can talk about that. I don't want to get, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of someone else's psychology or neurology. I want to stay in my own frame, the orientation I have in the early part of the day.
Day with that notebook, is I want to be in my own mental frame. I've just slept during sleep, is when we have neuroplasticity, the actual rewiring of neural connections, occurs during sleep. I'm a big believer in the subconscious and your, when you wake up, you are now in a position to extract, whatever it is that these new neural circuits have have figured out about the previous day and day's events. And so, if I immediately bombard myself or sensory experience or input or
Attractions, I'm not able to do that. So this morning for instance. I'll just give an example. I'm preparing an episode of the podcast on time perception. I've been reading a lot about this and I woke up this morning went outside with the notebook and just sat there and then realize that there's a way to organize this episode that has to do with frame rates and sort of slow motion versus fast motion cognition or hopefully it'll be clear about on the podcast happens. It's not fully formed, but that can me. So, I wrote
At down, thought, great and then I'll move into some more typical type work. It's great. If you can avoid email until after 12 noon, but that's very hard for a lot of businesses. So I will usually do a brief check in on email, critical items, but then I like to write so I will I'm working. I am working on a book. Finally. I will work on scientific papers on grants, on reviewing papers. I try and make that pretty heavy.
Actual lifting and take that till about noon and then I'll look into it and then we can talk about food and other things at this point. I haven't eaten anything.
Do you have a so you're not until noon. But one thing that you met did not bring up and I'm wondering, do have a
family. No, I have a relationship and I had a dog until recently. He passed away. So I do understand people have different. Thanks. Yeah. Have different constraints. He was a big part of my morning routine. I had this big 90-pound. Bulldog Mastiff name Costello, and we would
Could slowly do our walk. We get the sun together. Animals are perfectly happy to do these because these are very innate behaviors but no kids. No children. Are you know who your children in my life? I'll say that but to put their current have any children. Yeah. You
remind me of Henry Rollins.
Yeah, non-stop his except his jaw goes to about here, right? You know, like Henry's head is like this
big right? Sean. Do you know Henry Rollins has no one time I shot. Okay, if Shawn doesn't know who Dolly Parton is. He didn't know who Jimmy.
It was Sean. Does it know like white people shit? It's a we're going to put this in the category of white people. Shit. Henry Rollins was. He was it Black Flag that he was the lead singer
of? Yeah, so well, all right. I have to be careful, not to go down this path to I mean, I'm a big Ian Micaiah fan. So Minor Threat right, then? Minor Threat, and then there was Black Flag, so and yes, but Rollins was part of black flag, and he was early in the punk, rock scene to get into lifting weights.
Ian and those guys were straight edge. Straight edge means different things in different areas, but at that time, it meant, no alcohol, no drugs. It's pretty Firm Stance in the 80s compared to the rest of the culture. Yeah. I don't know Henry. I don't know Ian, but I listened to Minor Threat all the
time. But Sean, so Henry is like this guy. He's like this punk rocker. He's like, you might be in his 60s now, but obviously base. He basically like was singing, punk rock, but he would didn't drink or anything, and he lifts are liftin.
So he was like kind of like a meat head, a little bit and not a bad way, but it was like jacked. And now at this point is life. He's completely single. He doesn't have kids or anything and he's a poet and he's an actor and he just looked kind of like a renaissance man. We're and if you Google them, you'll recognize him. Did you, did you Google him? He's he's like an inch. You'll definitely recognize them. He was in. He was he's sometimes in movies, Sons Sons of Anarchy, things like that. And anyway, this is like really, really interesting guy and he'll go and I'll get Ted talk or something like that and
oh just talked about his philosophy on anything. He's kind of like Mike Tyson a little bit. He just kind of like every time he talks it's just like wisdom. Anyway, huberman has this like this like Henry Rollins Vibe a little bit and that's why I was asking about kids because you're this interesting guy who's kind of like I see in my head. I picture you as a slick guy who's alone. Intensely studying and trying to figure out like crack a problem. And I think that that's really an, that's just like an interesting part of you or at least. Yeah, my head. That's what I'm making you up as
sure.
No, I in the spirit of authenticity but not over sharing. What I can say about this is I mean, I've been blessed with great friendships. I've always think because that skateboarding punk rock era and because it was mostly guys back, then I have a community, a lot of friends who you know, swim who work out, who play music. I'm really good friends with a guy named Michael Miller. Who's a photographer, who does all the Marvel stuff, and I'll train with him. I training. I'm sometimes. Nothing. Laird Hamilton. And Gabby Reece has pool.
Ooh, I like those workouts. They're good friends of mine when I'm down there. But yes, I at this point in my life. I live in a somewhat remote area. I have a gym and a sauna and a cold dunk. I spend a lot of time with the books. I dying to get another dog and I do live, that kind of monastic, Life Style do have a relationship and that's great. And you know, the children thing is interesting because I started off studying brain development and neural plasticity and brain development. And so
To say that if I do something, I do it 100%. So I have no children now, but if I do have kids, I genuinely want five of them. I want a big family or not at all. So, that's the plan.
We should talk because you're kind of, your specialty, is around the eye, right? And I've heard you say this before that, and I'm going to paraphrase it sews polish, if I get it wrong, but I essentially part of the brain that exists outside of the, the sort of the cranium where the rest of the brain is stored. It's actually like it.
It's right. It is it is the same, is it what the same tissue or it's like developmentally that like kind of segregated at some point, but it's basically it's the only part of your brain that's like facing the world out exposed to the
world. That's right. You got you got several points there, right? And none of them wrong. These two bits are two pieces of your central nervous system that got extruded out of the skull or we should say out of the cranial Vault because technically they're still in the skull extruded out of the cranial Vault during development. And they are the way that your brain.
Figures out where it is in space and time, right? You by the rising and setting of the sun and the changing of the of the amount of light, throughout the year, regardless of where you live, and they are responsible for delivering 40 percent of the in. Let's just say, 40% of the brains, real estate is devoted to Vision in some way or another, we are incredibly visual animals, especially even in blind people that real estate provision, that's in the back of the head. The so-called occipital cortex.
Has overtaken by areas that respond to touch and hearing that's why they're so good at tactile and hearing, but in sighted individuals, vision is the predominant way. Not just that we represent and see objects around us o blue car tall good-looking woman or, man, whatever it is. It's also the way that we Orient ourselves in space and time and that we set our frame rate and we can talk about this. But
Essentially you when you as you move through life, you're either batching time in big chunks or in small chunks and that has to do with how you're viewing the visual world. So you're either thinking in slow motion, or thinking it fast, depending on your visual environment. That's probably a little abstract. But yes, these two bits are brain outside your cranial Vault.
And that's part of why you say kind of in the morning you want to go, you know, one of the key things of your morning routine was get outside. Let the Sun hits your eyes because it
You're it's basically alerting the body that hey, the Sun is up Kickstart, all your start your engines because it's daytime is regulating that way. And I think there's different things throughout the day that you've talked about that you can do to, you know, maybe reduce anxiety, maybe help you go to sleep and I'll give you a kind of two questions that came from the audience that when I tweeted out that you were coming on, they're both in the same vein. And so one question is, we talk a lot on this Pockets about the 80/20, right? We are fans of the shortcut shortcuts. Get a
Bad wrap around the world, you know, it's sort of seen as the, The Lazy. I don't care thing to do. But in many ways, a shortcut is great. A shortcut is basically saying, how do I identify the highest leverage points that if I did those? I would get maybe the biggest impact or how do I get the result? I want faster instead of slower. And so what would be the 80/20? Meaning if you could change for all the people who are listening to this, right? So imagine a hundred thousand people listening to this right now, if you could implant, sort of one or two Behavior changes that they could do in the day. So max
Mum of 2, which to would you pick that? You think have the highest Roi? The highest return for the investment of what it takes to do them. What do you think? Would make people happier while changer? It doesn't matter if anything, that's anything to make, you feel better have a bit. Yeah, whether it's improve your health or improve, the way you feel throughout the day. What would be the one or two that you would point to as like, your kind
of?
Yeah, so, you know, it's a great question. I think we need to think about foundational practices and the two things that set the foundation for optimal.
Mental and physical functioning are going to be really good sleep and really good, mental frame, and mental frame is going to be the ability to toggle between different states of mind. And so let me give you the practices first so that I don't get accused of being in an intellectual to the point of, you know, curing insomnia, right? During this podcast. The first one is that morning sunlight. In your eyes should be a non-negotiable thing.
360 days out of the year. If it's raining stand under an overhang. I'm very unsympathetic to the well. I wake up and it's early and then I got drive to work that stand outside for five minutes. I don't, you know, I I've got plenty of rest last night. So I'm not ordinary about this but I've grown a little bit exhausted of the. Well, you know, I can't do that because I've got kids right at take them outside with you. They need this to that sets. A cortisol increase in the morning, which is a healthy cortisol.
The provides wakefulness triggers your metabolism in the proper direction. If that cortisol Spike happens too late because you didn't view light, then you step out during noon to often. Remember, one day is no big deal. But step out in the sunlight too late off it too often late in the day. You have a delayed cortisol Spike, which is associated with insomnia, depression. They're good date on this. So get that morning, sunlight, 360 days. Out of the year. You will thank me. I promise everything gets better. Now. It's a slow subtle.
Shift. It's not like popping, you know thousand milligrams of l-tyrosine and drinking a double espresso and going to the gym. It's not a it's not it's a foundational practice. So I like to think of it as it raises the tide so that your boat can leave Harbor. That's how I think of it rather than 0. This is like, putting another outboard motor on, on my vessel. Okay, so that's the first one. And the second one is a little bit of a broader category, but it's get sleep, right? You have
If you're straight till you're sleeping. Well eighty percent of the time or more get your sleep. Right? And for this, I can just refer people. We do have a newsletter. It's completely free. But we have our privacy policy. We don't share your email. It's that huberman labs.com just got a newsletter, all the prior newsletters are listed. There's the key tips for sleep. You can watch the master your sleep episode or you can just download that 12 steps for optimal sleep. Yes. There is a segment on supplementation with some of the considerations and warnings.
There's also sections on non sleep, deep rest, protocols, links to those. So get your sleep right and get that light or in your eyes early in the day. If you're a blind person. There's another protocol. I've done some work with blind people to try and help them with this many blind, people still maintain that cells and their eyes that can reset the concept. These mechanisms.
What's the, what's the mental framework thing? That's the most interesting. It's a time of the year, for one thing, my friends change. Going from Q4 to q1. There's going to be a lot.
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Yeah. So mental frame is something that I don't think has been formalized in the kind of health and fitness optimization.
Sean's, really good at that, by the way. Like Shan Shan is very good at that, where he does a really good job of deciding what frame he's going to be in, put it differently my
But the number-one priority. My number one Mission, the thing I work on is not even my business. It's not this podcast. It is being able to being able to be in the state of mind. I want said, which is basically being able to experience the experiences. I want the way I want to have them, right? And so beautiful. I just made it my top priority in life. So then I started to get good at it because I realized, oh, shit. This is the cheat code. This is like, you know, you've got stressed out, billionaire over there and then you've got, you know. Joyful single mom.
I'm over here and like what's which quality of life do I actually want? Well, I want the one where my state of mind is in these states that I enjoy and not fear, anxiety, stress, depression. Not these other states that I'm trying to not have as part of my daily, you know, my daily diet. So that's my quick quick. Redone on it.
Yeah. I know. It's great. Mental frame is so key and most I will say and I want to be very respectful of everything. All the work that's proceeded when I showed
Up, but you know a lot of the stuff that's out there in the self-help and business. Literature. It, frankly is kind of nipping at the margins of some of the stuff like and look. I don't want to throw out names because it becomes disparaging. I think the one person who really deserves an odd, who's truly a pie there to people, who are incredible Pioneers in this space, and one is Cal Newport, right? So, so good, they can't ignore. You is Incredible Book. Everyone should be required to read that book deep work. Is this
I'm essentially paraphrasing some of the protocols from Deep work, but Cal who I don't know have never met but have great respect for. It's a computer science, Professor back East. It's about setting, mental frame and context.
Switching is dangerous. Which book which book are you
saying is? Okay. So he has a book so good. They can't ignore you, which was written some years ago. And that was more towards like, not trying to find your passion, but getting really good at skills, but deep work is an excellent book.
Has he's not on social media, but he has given some TED talks
and that book is about getting the right frame. It's sort of like it's a lot about flow, right?
It's about not succumbing to distraction so you can do work that actually moves the needle
but that's not what you're talking about. Is it I thought that you were talking know.
So yeah, then there's another one which is a world without email that he were recently. Here's the key essence of the Cal Newport work. Okay, the Kia, essence of it as it relates to mental frame, is that
That the brain is extremely good at end the body at context switching, like, I could be doing this podcast right now and have a fire alarm goes off, or someone comes knocking on the door. I can switch up my context and respond to that, but 90% of the work that we are that moves, the needle. Meaning that we are rewarded for or that enriches professional life and relationships it. We used to talk about this about mindfulness and presence but it's really about getting the brain to start doing.
In operations, more in a more facile way. And this is why habits are important, but because going to the gym, is different than reviewing a paper, writing scientific papers different than podcasting, or being a guest on a podcast for that matter. So, what happens is early in the day, when you get the download from sleep, you identify a few things that are key. You've already you're starting to funnel. Your neural networks toward what I'm calling frame setting and what you're not doing is allowing something that came in from the external.
Environment to adjust your frame. So you get a depth of connection with the work a depth. Like I knew I was doing this podcast today at noon and I wasn't walking and thinking about it, but I set that as a goal post and because I wrote it down, my brain is orienting toward what I need to do. So that when we clip on, we're ready to go. And so mental frames are very important context. Switching is deadly, I'm stealing cows word. So forgive me cow.
Some people will put Freedom, the the computer program, so that they are not able to engage with the internet this device which I've turned off, or I guess it is on, but it's on airplane mode for the podcast. I try and keep away from me for the first half of the day, very hard, very hard, especially when you need to post on social media, but I try and I want to have, here's the goal in the morning to make this simple. I want to have one 90-minute block that I completely concur that I that is where I
its immense resistance to do something other than what I'm doing, but that I stay in in
Noodling away or gnawing away would be the better word at writing something, or reading, something or trying to comprehend something, and you have to be very careful. The moment you walk to the restroom and then maybe like wash your hands and look yourself in the mirror. And then you're like, oh, you know, I got this weird hair growing on my cheek or something, your strongest, which mental frame. And so 90 minutes seems like nothing, but it is remarkable what you can accomplish with this. But the more important aspect is that in that exercise of
Ting. Good at what we call, no-go operations in the bringing of go and no go operations and pushing aside things and forcing those blinders. You're able to bring that same mental frame to other things later in the day and in life, and you're able to engage it much quicker. It's sort of like, if your cart, you drive a car and you've never been up to 110 miles an hour. You don't really know how to get around a semi in front of you. That's breaking fast and you're on a downhill, but when you have to do it, you can do it.
You're comfortable at speed and you're comfortable breaking. And so, this mental frame thing is not just about the work, you are able to do in that 90 minutes. It's about getting better at doing deep work. Even for shorter bouts because it's the day goes on, we all have this experience, right? Things start coming in, we start getting bombarded. And we're starting to get that checked, that kind of fragmentation of our of our goals. And we're kind of getting pulled off and some people that the peak time is in the afternoon, some people in the morning, some people play at night, but you're getting again.
Yanked off center. And so you have to be able to recognize just how delicious and effective that state is and then you can apply it later and I'll let people use their imagination. But this comes into into use in many aspects of life that have nothing to do with work. Okay, like being able to stay at that at that Groove with somebody, or in some interaction or you on a run. I mean, you know, use your imagination. This is the
The poor thing is, it's all the same circuit. It's this engagement of the prefrontal cortex, which is saying, duration path outcome. Meaning, what, how long is this going to? How long should I do this? What path should I take? What outcomes am I getting in real time? And not getting pulled off center by someone else's, DPO as I call them dpos? Incidentally or not. So incidentally, I've been fortunate enough to do some work with the Special Operations community in the Canada and the US, in addition to those guys being really good at shoot.
Move and communicate. The really exceptional ones, know how to flip the switch on. We think of it as like, grit resilience and mental toughness. And yes, they're all gritty, but they're a lot of gritty people out there. The difference is the ability to take your environment. Narrow, that environment and be effective and cut a fine slice through something, and then stop and move to something else. That's a mental operation. That involves multiple circuits, multiple neurotransmitters. We couldn't say just dopamine, just epinephrine or something like
It's going to be that but a bunch of other things too, and so 90 minutes like, learn that 90-minute battle and it takes time and then you get very, very good at. So I'll podcast for two hours. I drop into that. That's the state. I'm in when I podcast
two quick questions one. What do you suck at? Because when I talk to you, I'm incredibly intimidated. Because when it comes to mental health, and physical, health, and emotional health, I'm like, I'm so inadequate because well, I like I read your, watch your YouTube.
Tube to see like, you know, I stink at this, therefore. I want to learn what you're saying, so I can be better and then when I hang out with you, now, I'm like this guy's got it together. I know that's not the case your human. You've got issues just like me and you not the case. So, I want to know what you struggle with. And also do you just have loads of people drop it in your DMs hitting on you? Because I hear you talking like this guy. He's probably, it was it all just dudes. It's not just about two dudes, like sending you, pictures of like a mole on their back acts, ask him.
But you think it
is how do you know? I don't find moles on backs. Incredibly. I'm just kidding,
every doctor has that. They just all my doctor friends it so it just half of us say like hey, what do you think? This swamp
is exactly. So, okay. So just to make sure I close the hatch on that. So you asked for two tools. I gave three morning, sunlight, master your sleep. You can see that newsletter for the tools and then this 90-minute back and look some days. It goes better than others.
But remember, it's not just about what you accomplish. It's about getting into those frames and you're controlling it. This is I guess I wish I had said this before. Is that you are setting the beginning middle and end of that frame. That's what's key. It's not happening because someone else said game time noon on Sunday and you're showing up, anyone can do that with some practice. What you're learning, how to do is flip the switch. You're learning how to engage that, but you have to be very judicious in your use of this circuitry. You can't do it for 12 hours a day. So that's when I do email and all the other stuff.
Okay, not to 90-minute ballots, baby. One last point, about that. And then, I'll tell you what, I suck at, but there isn't time in the universe to get all of it. There's a second newsletter there, which is about optimizing learning and plasticity that touches into some of the details and some free links and protocols related to that. Also, at the newsletter. It's the October newsletter. Okay. So what do I suck at? Oh goodness,
like what your struggles? I mean, I imagine now that you're famous your Instagram probably in your Twitter are like blown up.
So maybe your is hard to keep track of your email and say on top of that. I'm out on on
projector. So three things that have been helpful for this. But okay, I'm dreadfully poor at communicate at follow-up Communications. I'm really bad. I really like comments. I try and respond especially on Instagram. I like to give people. If you ask a professor a question, they're going to give you an attempt at an answer, not it's accurate or not. They're going to try. They're gonna try and get
Right, so, I have to control my impulse to respond to everything just for sake of time. So I can do the big important things. I'm a terrible cook. I'm an absolutely terrible cook. I mean, I am fortunate that I have someone in my life. Who is an exceptional cook, but I am an absolutely Dreadful cook. I mean, I can, I could destroy toast. I just don't get it right. I don't have the
patience. Do you mean charger or do you eat really?
Well, so my diets pretty pretty clean. It's basically,
I do low-carb. At least, I'm not some stuff in the morning. If I'm hungry. I don't make a big deal out of. I put salt in my water, which kills your hunger, a lot of the time, a lot of people get shaky. They think they need sugar. Your electrolytes are low. Just put some sea salt or a little pinch of salt and water. Drink it like, oh, and don't know, two hours and your brain functions. Great blood volume goes up. So well, you know, I think we're going to I think 2022 is going to be the year that salt comes back. Science magazine is done a lot about the hypertension stuff if you have hypertension check with your doctor, but you know,
I need a low carb throughout the day so meat and salad, maybe I might have us a little bit of rice or something. If I train, I do exercise, I train in the morning at some point you I prefer to do it early, but I find some time where I do one hour of exercise. Every its weight train run like one day weight training, one day run. One day, weight training, one day run. And take one full day off each week. I never trained for longer than an hour after warming up. I hit it as hard as I can, because I can't seem to come off the gas pedal. And that's my my thing. I've been doing that for 35 years.
46 now so 32 you're sorry. One is but I was going to ask you one
one related question, which is you talked about health and kind of like you kind of mentioned you intermittent fast. Basically, you don't eat till noon or you about that and you train a certain way and when it comes to health, there's like, you know, there's a high carb diet. There's a low carb diet. There's that, there's meat is good, meat is evil. There's this is, you know, weight training is good. Weight training is horrible. Cardio is good. Cardio is bad.
So there's sort of this like bombardment of different site info. And I think, you know, what, you're trying to do is get to the source of income to the truth of things. What is one piece of conventional wisdom that you disagree with? Or maybe a tipster wisdom, something. That's a fad or Trend right now that you you say, hey pump the brakes on that, that might be able to help some people out. So what's something that's you hear a lot, but you don't, you don't buy it or you don't agree with their. You think it actually might be
harmful. Sure hates always back there a little bit, but I have this thing about the reddest of answer. So forgiving. I've got a little bit about
Of a OCD on this, a terrible cook, so I suck at cooking and I'm not a good writer. I'm not a bad writer but verbal into exchanges how I do best. So I solve this problem by right into I dictate into voice voice memos and then I put it on. What's it rev.com? Yeah. My personal income and then I sculpt from there and because I'm not a very good writer, so and I'm a terrible music.
Mission, I love music. I'm, I can't play a chord to save my life and I, that's okay. I'll live with that. So I'm terrible at a lot of things Sam. And, and if you talk to any of my ex-girlfriends that they, you know, they'll give you their take on what I'm good at and what I'm not good at, you know, but trust me there are plenty of things. I'm like world-class failure at and I don't try and hide those but I think I'm glad you asked the question because I don't have it all figured out. I've been greatly.
But to I just want to give a nod to Tim Ferriss. No only through the podcast interaction that podcast for our four hour work week for our body especially had a tremendous impact in accelerating my career in science because I was able to focus on things that really matter. Maybe not for just four hours, but that's just the principles in those books. I think we should all be reading those books. They're so damn good. And yeah.
So, okay, the diet thing. I do low-carb during the day in the night carbohydrates at night. I like start. I like pasta and salad. I try and limit my protein at night, because it makes me sleepy. And I get into really great sleep by eating my starches later in the day, usually by on a tour. So I eat dinner and then I go to sleep around 10:30 or so. I'll have a snack sometimes if I want them, but generally, I don't want one. And that's really, really key because if I've trained early in the day and I'm running around like crazy.
I'm also burning up a lot of glycogen. I want to repack my glycogen. So I can train in the morning. So I tend to like to train early in the day. Okay. So what's out there? Well, first of all, the the nutrition space is a disaster. It's an absolute disaster. So much so that I'm already preparing for the attack about what I'm about to say, which is a well accepted truth in science. There's a paper from Chris Garner Lab at Stanford showing that
That as long as people in just fewer calories than they burn, you're going to lose weight, regardless, of whether or not those calories, are low carb regimen or vegan regimen or pure meat. Regiment Etc. So calories in calories, out is a foundational principle. I've been accused of saying different but the fact of the matter is, it's true. Now, the calories out portion is going to be regulated by a number of things basal metabolism. How much you exercise? Are you hormone augmented? Are you
well, what's the controversial thing that you've just said?
I don't even know.
Well, so in the nutrition space, there's this other idea. The other idea. It's grounded in some rationale, which is like, for instance, when you eat an animal protein, like chicken or beef or fish. There's a metabolic cost. There's a there's a calories out equation from the digestion and utilization and protein and use of
that people that seems like a rounding error now,
It's not huge but it's very different than if you were talking about equivalent number of calories from from starch. So it now there, but there are hormonal effects of biased. What I call biased diet. So I eat a macronutrient complete diet, includes fats and proteins and and carbohydrates carbohydrates are sort of on an as needed basis. So if I'm training a little less, I might need a few fewer of them Etc. But the nutrition space is a mess because everyone has to eat.
And people have different preferences. And so a lot of the stuff that you see out there really, just geared toward finding a match with an audience that prefers plants or prefers meat or prefers to fast, you know, having explored the fasting science and literature. There's nothing holy about fasting. That provides autophagy the cleaning up of dead cells. I mean low calorie diets will do that. Also, even if you're not so-called fasting, but there are it appears some benefits to having periods of each 24-hour cycle? Where you're not ingesting calories.
Independent of the total number of calories. So the biggest issue. I have the, the mess that I see out there that I hope will get resolved is that people are using social media and a certain type of. He said she said they said we said to amplify controversies that don't really exist, right? I'm willing to bet for instance. I'll just State my stance on this, they eating more plants and less
8, forgive me Paul salad, you know, he's a friend of mine and you know, he's the carnivore and he's got great data to support what he's got. But I like plants. I'm gonna eat a salad. Am I gonna die? Maybe. But I'm eating my salad, but I'm also going to eat a steak and so it's almost like crazy when we start talking about this. Like, are we really talking about this?
Here's what I did to him. That the carnivore MD. It's the sky and it's a grip. So my nape. Do you know who perp? You know, the perfect keto guys Andrew.
I know of them. Yeah,
so Anthony is lives across the street from me and then just
And has been on this podcast. A bunch. Okay, and then there are Anthony and this other guy went to somewhere in Africa. I forget to see how this tribe lives. Eating mostly just meat and some honey. And that other guy, his name is Paul. He's got this Instagram handle, Sean called carnivore MD. And basically he pretty much only eats meat organs and like butter just animal, dude. Yeah, he'll do honey
and some berries and stuff. Look, very smart guy and
And people will come the battles on the internet. Like, does dietary cholesterol impact. Serum! Cholesterol is serum cholesterol, impacting testosterone or not. I mean, it's, it's so crazy. But the reason it's crazy is not because it isn't a valid conversation. I mean, we all have to eat and people want to live a long time and feel vital. It's crazy because there's really no field. It's not like vision science or stress science or sleep science or
Or you know cognitive psychology. There's no field. It's bringing together people with very diverse Frameworks, trying to resolve the same problem. And so it's sort of like if I were to be in discussion or being with someone who's a philosopher, I don't do philosophy. I don't know the principles of philosophy. So I think that the issue on the internet right now is that is a big one. Who are the experts. I mean, we've seen this with everything related to covid, right? Who are the real experts. Are they the people with government?
Was that they the people who who are, you know, MD is it phds? I think what I would like to see more of what I know, I'd like to see more of our more panel discussions. This is one thing that isn't happening on podcast as much as it could panel discussions where people can get to the heart of the matter by combining Physicians, scientists and practitioners. I do understand the frustration and The Angst of people who devoted a career to being in the trenches of doing stuff.
And then someone who has an MD or writes a book and comes along and says, hey, I've solved weight loss or I've solved it by way of eliminating one macronutrient, which by the way is not what Paul saladino saying, I just want to be clear that I that's I'm not pointing anything at him directly when I say that. So I think that it's the kind of a free for. All right now nutrition is the worst but in terms of the battles, but there are some shining bright lights in that space, for instance.
Dr. Andy Galpin is an exercise physiologist who's done work with a lot of athletes. He's the professor Cal State Fullerton in terms of training, regiments. He's just for endurance, and for strength, for female athletes. And, for male, athletes for the everyday person. He's got, his content is just so damn solid and grounded in mechanism all the way from muscle sarcomeres to this is how long you should rest between sets. If this is your goal and then in the nutrition space, I've found what works for me, which is this low carb starting around.
Around noon and then gradually transitioning into higher carbohydrates because I eat for health, but I mainly eat for mental and physical functioning. I'm paying attention to how I feel and I want to be able to do my work. And so I think that's very important to it's a missing piece of the equation, which is it, you know, I wouldn't survive a day doing a, you know, six small meals of, you know, each macronutrient. I'd be. I'd have to cook. Do
you think the answer for something like nutrition? Is that
You can break the population up into kind of these six or ten clusters and you should eat. You may this might be the ideal diet or optimal diet for you. Or do you think it is? Hey, the solution you have actually might work for everybody. I like do you think that I know it's not not to the T of like, you know exactly what you eat. But in terms of on one side, you got completely plant-based on other side, you got completely carnivore. Another side is to sort of no carb or low carb or slow carb, right? There's all these different varieties. Do you think the and
do you think when it comes to humans knowing what is the optimal thing to eat? Is it that there are completely different configurations for different groups of people or that, actually for humans. They're actually would be one sort of optimal diet and then some some, with some edge cases.
I have to assume that there's going to be some genetic bias towards certain things where you can. So, for instance, I lucked out but I also suffer because I don't like alcohol, just makes me go to sleep. So I don't care if there's alcohol or not. Some people really like a drink. That's probably genetic just, doesn't it? Makes me feel bad. It's not just that it doesn't make me feel good. It makes me feel
bad. Do you? Do you, do you like to get fucked up at all? What do you do? You have like drugs, you like anything?
I don't really no drugs. No,
I mean you don't even smoke weed.
No, I don't smoke weed. I never liked. I never like marijuana or alcohol very much. I'm my drug is learning and adrenaline. I do. I've had to work on the adrenaline part of there's stories for another time. I put myself into some unhealthy situations and dangerous situations, but I I come alive with dopamine and adrenaline in
my so you don't and so you don't do any drugs. You don't you really don't drink? I don't drink or do drugs either but my vice
His I'll eat like a whole box of Twinkies when I want to party. That's like I'm like, yeah, like pop playing it like two weeks out. Like let's go eat a whole birthday party. Yeah.
No. No, sure. I don't, you know, I would say about 85% of time, I clean but but I'll eat bread. I love bread and I believe butter on it, you know. Basically bread is a vehicle for butter. My case. You know, I'm and I'm at now watch the plant. People are going to come out day. There's a video they already came after me. Like you were in says butter is
Look, if you increase your fats or saturated fats a bit, do the blood work, you'll watch your your serum testosterone, go up and we can talk about testosterone if you want, but it's not necessarily good for your heart. I didn't say it was good for your heart. I said, it's good for your Vitality, which is different in the short run, then in the long run, but in terms of vices, I like Kathleen, I do use certain stimulants over-the-counter stimulants. Like I'll take l-tyrosine these days. I take 300 mg of alpha GPC. If I really want to laser in, I don't do any more than
Days a week maximum. And that's also in that second toolkit newsletter, that and phenylethylamine, or phenyl alanine, those two combined and the, you're in a year in a focused tunnel, but I don't touch modafinil. I don't touch stimulants. I don't do recreational drugs. When I was in college. Sure. I mean, I partied a bit but also, you know, I don't need any chemical to say exactly what's on my mind.
Or to withhold some of the things that are on my mind, so I'm just not been my thing. And but also I'm generally training in the morning and I generally want to get worked on and, you know, I look, I always admired people that could have a couple beers and relax because it's such a big part of our culture, but that just didn't. That's not the way I went. You asked about in terms of diets and genetic differences. Well, you know, this is the same thing with sleep and Chrono types. We have people that prefer to
A plate. Wake up late, and people that prefer to wake up early and then it's a fairly normally distributed population. What should we do about this? Well, for instance, some people probably feel better eating more starches and less protein and maybe more plants and some people look at it, looks to me like Joe Rogan's doing just fine on his elk meat and whatever else. He's eating died. I don't know. I don't know. He seems like he's thriving. I will say in full disclosure that the people that I know.
Who are hormone augmented? I'm not talking about big bodybuilders. I'm talking about people that are taking low dose of testosterone whether or not to replace something or not. They tend to Crave or at least eat more proteins because it increases protein synthesis. And, you know, that's me. Yeah. Yeah,
so I'm gonna, yeah, I'm on it. I'm on it now and prior to being on it. I worked on it for, I did it. I tried doing it naturally for like, two years to increase. It was like 200 it.
So low and it was shit and it was so low and I was running a company at the time. I was so stressed out. So I like took time off. I ate me, I squatted. And then I started taking trt and my life changed. Oh, yeah, it was no crazy. And then I started eating more me and I didn't do it for body reasons. I did it for emotional reasons, but my body changed, I feel like a professional athlete at 32. It's pretty crazy. How much that change? But what you said on your one of your podcast is it seems true?
Is that means I'll likely live. Let there's a likelihood that I will not live as long because there was like some, I don't know if you said it, someone else, Sean they did these studies. Basically, for some reason, there's this group where they would castrate you in China. I don't know if it was like, done out of like being like a monk or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, and these guys didn't have dicks anymore and they castrated them and balls. They balls test. Sorry. Yeah, they didn't have balls anymore. And
they I mean I didn't do the experiment. Nor did I check the
But I was what
they live longer, like they consistently live longer. It's and and like it's so like, now that I'm on this, I'm like a probably maybe I'll live to be 90 instead of 95. I don't know. Who knows what? It's gonna be, but it's pretty sick life. So that's kind of the sacrifice that I'm making. Yeah.
Well, basically the idea is that, that your story speaks to is a true one, which is that vitality and Longevity are on their sort of orthogonal to one another. They're not counteracting.
One another, but they're kind of orthogonal to one another. And puberty is the most rapid stage of Aging in our entire life and its accelerated aging. I mean, puberty is aging. It's just that you're not, it's across the, you know, you think about it in the context of a portion of the entire life Arc. So introducing hormones of the sort that were robust during puberty will accelerate that
Crossing, you know, you just said that by tality and Longevity or orthogonal basically, meaning the better and more optimized. I want to feel the less. I'm going to
Not necessarily that if they're there are sort of off-center to one another but the they're not counteracting, when it they're not antagonistic. So here, let me explain and how this would work in the real world. So if you will, let's use the Yuzu example, you decided to go on testosterone replacement your, your total testosterone. And you said it was in the somewhere in the 200, nanograms per deciliter range, which is below the, the normal reference range. So, you go on and you you're saying, and
Aptly that maybe that's going to shorten your life because of the way that it can negatively affect lipid profiles and things the way it affects the liver. There's a lot about chemistry there. We don't have time to go into but that's true. However, testosterone will also whether or not it's coming from endogenous sources, or from replacement will also increase your energy level and your ability to lean into friction. You're going to be running more, you're going to be able to exercise more. So I have done a number of episodes on hormones, but one thing that's
it's really important to understand because I got a lot of questions about this is that
Well, the main effect of testosterone is it makes effort feel good. Because of the way that it is, you it makes you there's a Readiness for challenge of all kinds intellectual challenges the right when I drop it, just the way that I
just grabbed two peoples. I'm like, I want to fight all the time and not necessarily fistfight, but I just want to be in a battle, whether it's a battle myself friction. Yeah. Yeah. I want I want fight. I want to go
fight friction, feels good. And so, and Robert sapolsky, the great Robert sapolsky was on my podcast. He said you they've done these experiments. Also,
Within couch, with altruistic acts of friction where people donating money. For instance. It's not just beating people up in this kind of thing. So, but and I'm not suggesting people run out and get on out on here, get on trt. I wanted touch on that. But basically, so you could say, well, my blood lipid profiles are perhaps a bit worse, but with that extra energy, you can now start exercising four times a week. Plus, you know, cardio plus 4 times, a week of weight training and recover.
With no problem provided you're doing the other things that you need to do. Whereas, if you weren't, you would probably be depleted. There's a depression component and, you know, your finances would probably suffer these kinds of things. Now, some people do not need testosterone place. I'm going to just because I think I'm kind of walking around the margins and people are probably wondering, well, you know huberman, Artie Artie, is that what this is about. I'm 46 years old. I didn't, I didn't touch it until 45. I went 45 years. I've talked about
Some of the supplements that can naturally increase testosterone.
You, your, auntie are
T. So from, I'm 46. Now, I started on my at 40 after 45, but let me so, but let me explain because I'm actually coming off. So the that so what I did is, I'm researching a book. So I did 45 years of training and sleep and all the normal things, found some supplements that will increase testosterone. That's the Fado Giant on golly. You can see down that Joe.
Joe Rogan episode. I talk a lot about this on the episode with Tim Ferriss. A number of women are taking Tonga Ali as a way to increase their free testosterone and getting quite good results. I don't have any relationship whatsoever to Tonga Ali or for doji a company. I don't care if you take it, definitely check with your doctor. There are some kind of spooky reports out there about Fado Gia and toxicity of the cells in the, in the testes, but those seem to be limited to rat studies. Anyway, do your research. I'm not telling you what to do and you're responsible for your health, not me, but those supplements done.
Leave from the right sources can increase testosterone by about 200 nanograms per deciliter. The most dramatic I've ever seen, is a shift from about 300 to or high 2's to like, you know, eights and nines. But when I went, but I decided to try trt and a small dose spread throughout the week. My testosterone that time was already sitting in the high eight. So I was doing fine and you I did it as an experiment for part of this book and it changes your mental frame. It makes you more self-directed.
Directed more willing to lean into Challenge and counter to the popular belief. It makes you calma. This is the thing that people don't realize, it gives you more energy, but it makes you calmer the in primates non-human primates and humans stressed. Angry. People are the ones that are in the kind of low to mid range of testosterone. Typically. Typically, there's their averages from a few studies.
And I always thought I always thought well, it just makes me more confident. And confident men don't get up.
Easily, you know, like if someone's like yelling at me or like there's and I'm like, like I my masculinity is not being challenged right now. I'm not like, I'm not that's why people are like, oh, so you want to fight all the time? Like, well actually do the opposite. If someone gets in my face, I'm confident enough that I could, I couldn't, I can walk away. You know what I
mean? Your own, you maintain your own frame, you're not going to get pulled off by projection or nowadays. The the buzzword is gaslighting. Everyone's gaslighting everybody Without Really under a
we interested in psychoanalysis. I've been fascinated by this for years and this whole concept of projection is very interesting. How do you actually shift someone's nervous system. This is not a good thing. But how does one shift their nervous system to change the mental frame of another nervous system. It's very interesting and kind of spooky stuff when you start to think about how your nervous system will frame shift your frame. Someone else's right. Now. This is vital to when your child or your partner comes to you. And says, I really I'm really stressed about something. It requires a
Different shift and you need to do that. People who are Autistic or of Asperger's don't frameshift very well. They're very much in their own frame and they're very good at certain kinds of things and let's go to others. People are highly, empathic are susceptible, and pass, will know to getting yanked down. Different frame shift Pathways such that they can. Oh my god. I've been done anything with my life because I've been so consumed with so-and-so's thinking or feelings around things. So testosterone makes effort feel good. I'll talk about the effects on the brain.
Jane, let's leave aside all the effects on the body. And yes, it might change blood lipid profiles. But in general, the energy is the component, it provides a neural energy in an activation stance where then it's a question of what you do with that. So if you use that as an excuse to eat a little less well-trained, a little less than you're no better off and you might be worse off if you use that as an opportunity to lean in so life. That's wonderful. I work with a number of professionals and athletes and it kind of Consulting.
On role to assist with some of this, of course, with an endocrinologist as well. New parents, for instance, who decide they don't want any more kids, and they're dealing with lack of sleep and all these things, oftentimes benefit from that and the relationship can often benefit for a number of reasons. So this is probably a whole other discussion. I'd be happy to come on some time and just talk all about the hormones because it's all estrogen is key. A lot of people in particular, men are blocking estrogen when they're take T RT, which is a terrible idea.
Estrogen promotes brain. Longevity. Estrogen is good for connective tissues. It's good for libido. Blocking, estrogen is a bad idea in most cases. But of course, some people are worried about water retention or breast development in males. And so they're blocking estrogen, you have to work with an endocrinologist. So it's not testosterone is good. Estrogen is bad. That is absolutely. That's very soft. More thinking, you know, it's more
complex than that. Son. Did you get you did you get your t-test lately or no? No, but I also love the phrase sophomore.
Canada had a bunch of people with that. That's how I'm going to combat people on Twitter from now on. I will call you're going to get a slight on their sophomore thinking, I will guess
the gas lighting thing is funny because, you know, gaslighting is with the basic people are saying that they're triggering them, right? Gaslighting is something very different and having experience with borderline people at that's a very, it's a challenge, both for the Border Lines and for the peoples in their lives. That's a real psychiatric challenge. So, anytime I see these valid psychiatric terms being kind of bastard.
Sized on the internet, I get it. I get a little bit. That's all. That's what the
challenge is. Right? Like pop Science, pop into this sort of like Papa fiying of everything. It'll be more viral, right? Like, you know, it's easy to make something viral when you take away all the Nuance you just say this causes that blank statement, you know, blanket statement like that. And so, you know, I'm sure for a guy like you who's trying to actually get to the truth that can be frustrating sometimes.
Yeah, hearing that. It depends is not an answer. That goes very
Our. But and here's where I'm hoping, there's a tide change or, which is that if people can understand mechanism, they can start to understand a little bit of, you know, we have this stress system and we hear that stress is bad, but you know, a brief. I just did a podcast episode with Duncan French from the UFC performance Institute. Duncan's work, has shown in peer-reviewed studies that short-term stress raises testosterone, stress that last more than a day or two or training sessions that go more than
90 minutes that depletes testosterone so as stress bad for for reproduction depends, so but if people can understand mechanism, then they can start to understand. Hey and ice bath is stress, but it will protect you against illness because in the short term, adrenaline buffers, you against infection because adrenaline is the signal by which your immune system says. Oh my goodness. I need to combat something. So if people can understand mechanism, then it doesn't matter if you're talking about acupuncture cold bath, sauna, lifting weights.
Sprinting, your Bikram Yoga people. Can I believe that people are smart and that if you extend a hand of that lends, some respect to their intelligence that they'll come along for the discussion about mechanism and that, even if I were to get hit by a bus tomorrow, but then they could digest the next wave of information, coming to them in a much more nuanced way. Of course, people still need protocol. They need a jumping off point. And so that's why my podcast has been met.
Only about that but I think science and health information on the Internet is changing very quickly. Thanks here, again. I just have to say it was seen Lex Friedman's podcast. I don't know what the equivalent is in the in the finance and entrepreneurial area. Maybe it's you guys, but in the kind of general landscape of podcasting, I saw Alexis podcast for the first time, I thought this guy is having really intense intellectual conversation.
Yeah, he's such a good. He's so weird in a cool way. He's so interesting. He's
Unique. He is he's kind of punk, rock. I mean, Lex is very punk rock and
he's his lifestyle. If you think my lifestyle is unique, I mean, Lex well, maybe just get him on the podcast. He's a really, I'll let him do the speaking for himself. But I think that once someone's out there doing that. It's very hard for people to follow suit with the kind of low-level version of that. So what I love and I have listened to your podcast, so I love about your podcast. What I love about Ferris and Rogan and Lex and the rich roll and I'm missing a few.
You are and I'm going to regret it later though. I'm not remembering these names. But because there are others of course is that if cigar and Jetties news channel for instance a remarkable is that if we all push each other to constantly try and increase the quality and the value per unit time of a podcast, even if it's not just protocols, but it's a style of discourse like we've done today that to me is going to elevate the medium.
As something that is a serious thing instead of just the, you know, chatter
do you how big is our audience right now? So on, it looks like on YouTube, you've had 16 million views you've been around for 10 months. So you're that's north of a million views a month on YouTube. What about on on podcast?
Yeah, so will an Instagram. I think we're sitting somewhere around like seven hundred thirty thousand followers or something like that. But that's just really. I do put out unique content there that separate from the podcast from
Time to time but you're going to laugh but actually and I'm not cloaking anything. I
actually don't tell me. You don't know. I
don't know. I don't know. So that's Rob. So Rob and we have a web guy.
I mean, you gotta, if I had to guess like five to ten million a month
that sounds about right. I think it's on the higher end of that. I think I know that's right because if it's about 2 million per episode in the first couple weeks. Is that something? I don't know. I'm
your two million you're at two million, an
episode. I
Don't know, I should ask Roger. Otherwise,
it kills me. Do you really think that like leader? Listen? Do you realize what to surely Tim or whoever has talked to you and Joe has talked to you with 2 million downloads at episode dude. You you're rich, you're very you could be very wealthy. I'm shocked that you're still teaching.
I'm still wear the same shirt every day. Yeah. I know that before on cast
average salary of a for the podcast. I was like this guy could easily be banking few million dollars.
Your and keep doing the exact same thing you're doing now. It's not like a typical shift to doing something else and I looked original fine. I thought what a professor's make. Here's what I looked up. Staying for Professor. This is what's on the internet. No idea if this is true or not, Sam Professor. Will average Professor will make somewhere between 200 to 225 thousand dollars per year, which is obviously a great living for a lot of people but I thought, wow, that's high
for an academic. It doesn't burn on MD academic. Oh the pay is it's not just
A sever its abysmal in the Bay Area and I want to be respectful. People have different needs and costs and put that in the Bay Area that that's a tough. Tough life for someone with kids, you know, depends, I'm not tough life. But anyway, I'm going to get some haters for this. But you know, what? Fucking hang out. Come hang out.
Do you know? And have you have you enjoyed being
famous? Well, okay. So a couple of things, one about the views. I really do need to check with Rob on the numbers. I don't know. I don't track that. I know we're doing.
One thing in the business side, since you have this audience that you know, I only advertise products. I actually use I've been using athletic greens for over a decade. Right? So I love that stuff. I don't we stay with a limited number of
advertisers inside tracker die. I bought them by tracker. I use, I use my code huberman hubermann.
Yes, we work with or thank you. We work with athletic greens. Is a rip for me was a really good supplement. Is the only one I set aside money for as a student and postdoc or
as a postdoc and Professor because it covered a lot of
things so expensive
though. Yeah. It I feel better when I take it. So that's why I take it but I get it and it's it is
like 100 or second hundred dollars a month. I think at this
point, there's a cost there. It yeah, so obviously it has to be within the scope of someone's decisions of around finances, but the sleeve cocktail we work with Thorn because the great thing about Thorn is the quality of their supplements is so good that you can actually take less of thorns supplements in my experience and get away with it.
But there are other great supplement companies out there. I'm not here to plug the our sponsors, but I do obviously that's the way podcast make money and I pay my staff which is prob and Mike and Ian and we have a few others as well. I should mention one thing about the medium and as a business model, so I've never talked about this, but the human lot podcast is but one of several podcast under a company that I founded with Rob,
So David Sinclair from Harvard. Genetics tenured professor tanks at Harvard lifespan, right lifespan. So he's launching the lifespan podcast with
David sit there and you're owning
this. Yeah. I own that brilliant,
my past Network.
And so we're working on the front-end and back-end materials of that me and Mike playback or the creative Zone that with the sauce more aesthetic. And the and it'll be very different than mine. Right? Because David I mean he
You know, I wouldn't we're different
David. You're going to clear your beauty, your you're building this media business, all sitting around, longevity, and healthy, and Longevity, mental, and physical health. I don't know. We'll call it mental Fitness. That's a weird that we've used mental Fitness. You're going to crush this. This is going to be here. Thanks.
Well, the goal is really that, for instance, many professors have excellent information. They can share on gut microbiome on Addiction, on ADHD, that goes, well beyond the depth that I can provide.
In one of my episodes. And so they need to do six or seven episodes, but they probably don't need to do in a podcast in perpetuity. And so the idea is to have a set of podcast that you can come to mine. If you like David's, if you like, maybe God forbid, you Alba relative, dealing with Parkinson's, and hear from somebody, what you can really do about that or Alzheimer's or you have a kid and you want to know, what are the signs based practices for getting a kid to sleep? And for neural plasticity? In a child. Let's talk to a world expert in that.
And and so the the idea is to have an umbrella for multiple podcast, the human Lab podcast is, but one of those that I plan to continue David's is going to be the second and we've got a third and a fourth that are revving up now. And who knows? Maybe we should do one on. I don't know something related to crypto or something. I don't know. I only know what I know and I know academics, I know science and I know medicine and so that's what I'm going to bring to the
table. This is awesome. You know, I had this thank you belief a while back, which was I remember thinking about
My favorite science teacher when I was growing up in high school and he was great, but he would, and I just thought about, like, his kind of, like sphere of impact. Like, he could, you know, he each class about 20 kids, who would teach five classes a day. So we teach about 100 Kids a day. And so, you know, his reach as like my best teacher growing up was 100 students had 100 students a year essentially, what he was able to reach and then with the internet. I just thought, wow. This is going to change the best teachers in the world are going to have millions of students.
And they're going to make millions of dollars as they should for being amazing teachers. And I've always been looking out for and I've been investing and every platform I can get my hands on anywhere. I can see that teachers are able to do that where they're able to scale and have millions of students and have because, you know, if I'm going to learn math or I'm going to learn about nutrition, I can either learn locally. Like that's the way the world always worked. I just learned from my best local teacher that was available to me. Or now. I can learn globally so I can find actually who is the best at not only?
Being an expert, but packaging it, and conveying it in a way. That's entertaining. That's relatable. That's that fits me, right? And so, you know, that's what you're doing. The, you're the perfect example of something. I've been thinking about for 10 years of why isn't the world moving this way? And actually it is it just it wasn't through online school. It was through things like podcasting or newsletters and and it's more popular in other countries, you know China and does a really good job of this. They've got a we've done some case studies on some Chinese Teachers who make tens of millions of dollars a year or Superstar options.
Like, musicians and athletes. There's teachers that are like that. Yeah. Same with India, you know, John. We had that you sent that you shared with me that really cool photo of a guy in India, teaching math. And it looked like he was a comedian because there was like a is names Bijou. Now, he's a guy in India. He's about, have to check it out. He's a math teacher, he would teach them like local Villages and people love learning math for him. So he would go to other cities and they would come find him because it spread the word of mouth eventually. He was filling up stadiums, free free, you know.
Free to attend. He was just teaching math on a projector in a 20,000 person stadium and now he has a greater density. Created an app. It's like a ten billion dollar education app in India, but you know like that was his origin story and I thought that was just an amazing story.
I love it, you know, and I love the model around podcasting because yes, you have to tolerate some ads. But advertisers are happy, consumers, are happy and it's zero cost to consumer that to me is like if ever there was order in a universe, not the universe. But in a you
Verse, that's that's it. Yes,
but it sucks. So, do you know what do you know my company at all? Or did you know my company?
I'm afraid. I
don't it's all good job. So it's all good. So we own this. And then we own this thing called the I started this company called The Hustle, which was a daily email that reached about two million people. A day for business news. We just sold it to HubSpot for many tens of millions of dollars. And we are making, you know, twenty million dollars on ads. So we made a lot of money and the problem with ads is its
Cool. When you're doing it now because you can pick and choose Thorn, athletic greens. You can pick and choose cool shit. And that's exactly how we started but then you get staff and you're like, all right, we're going to try and triple every year. And so in order to Triple every year like there's not that many thorns and athletic greens and you gotta go look at like some other bullshit and you're like, well, we gotta hit these growth numbers. It's so it's so it's kind of you. I don't think he worships at the altar of year-over-year growth, the way that we do, and I think that's awesome. Well, maybe know, we we know but you always think about it for example.
If I talk shit about athletic greens and let's say they did something kind of wrong and you, you know, happen. Well, that's my point. That's exactly my point. You will say, well, I don't know. You don't be we it's even the most honest people and good people. You are everyone. We're all incentivize something and so maybe like he would be willing to defend them a little bit more because they're giving him money, which is a natural thing. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Yeah, so that, that is an issue. I mean, I think that and we do care about growth
but and the reason we built out a philanthropic arm of this company is because I really I empathize with the struggle that academic scientists live in day to day which is that they don't have time to do their own research. Let alone work for the world which is what they're really hired to do their grants come mainly from public sources. So we're trying to think about ways that we can start to pump some money back into science through the podcast. So money coming into the
Actually represents some of it money going back into the scientific Community to do better work. We're starting to explore n FTS and some of how that might be incorporated. Twitter is a great place to learn about that. I just want to say that the nft landscape and crypto landscape. People are so kind. It's like they're trying to come on. It's kind of all in it. Kind of reminds me the early punk rock movement is like you. They know I'm paying attention to their energy. I don't understand a darn thing.
Is the punk rock. It is very popular everybody to sell you their
And their currency and wife. Yes, wait, please say something tell you about it because they are we are all you know selling our own Holdings basically. Interesting. Wait until you say something bad about them though.
Okay. Well, I tend yeah, I hope not to do that at least not by accident, but I just noticed that there's there's I love the DIY Spirit. Look I'm a patriot to. I'm sure you have an international audience. But my dad's a first-generation immigrant. This, this country is from we're using from are from Argentina.
He's out, you know, he wasn't from someplace where he was stricken, but he came here on a Navy scholarship. He's a physicist, you know, this is a country where you can make lateral moves. It's hard to ascend. All right, and we should acknowledge that, not everyone starts in the same place and and the the slope is different for different people. No question, but you can make lateral moves here. And the, you know, think about this, the Nobel prizes given each year. For instance. The world is Big. The world of science is Big, most noble.
Prizes include or are given to people in the US and we have one of the most difficult funding schemes for getting money to do research in this country. Now, compared to third world countries were very wealthy in the research realm but compared to other countries where they spacely stock the Laboratories with money. It's incredible here. We have these individual Labs like doing little like startup to style Workshop stuff. It's that grind. Is that leaning into friction that I really believe is the Hallmark of
Future development and so science doesn't have that. We didn't have a podcast platform or information platform and I'm hoping that my podcast and the others like David's and on the other ones that come out through our company will will soon populate. I'd love to see more of this done out there. There's you know, there's some smart guy or gal is out there thinking like I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do the podcast 09 phibian because I love frogs and I'm gonna like, tell people which terrarium to get and like
It's gonna be the terrarium, the podcast and you never know what's going to what's going to work. But I love that Spirit, the entrepreneurial spirit. So it's what we're trying to
bring what, dude, thanks for coming on. This is badass. We have it done in five guys. This long and a long time, by the way, we had, I'll tell you really quick. We had Rob Dyrdek on recently. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he is. I forgot what we were talking about skateboarding and like wealth or something, but he's like, the wealthiest. Yeah,
Rob wouldn't know me, but he's tight with Mike playback because Robin big big unfortunately passed.
Way and Mike did all the photos for that, and yeah, look skateboarders, if you want to know what's really cool, and how to do real DIY Spirit. You just skateboarders. They
just, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna brat. I'm gonna brag after this. I'm gonna send you a video of my latest Three Sixty flip. So, I don't worry. I'll send it to you.
Always. Yeah, I can't do like, I've got no Tre flip, but the I write a pool, but I'm, I'm not. I'm not that good.
Dude. You're badass, man. I'm so excited. I could talk to you. I feel.
Spired after having a conversation with you. You're very you're very interesting. You're going to be a much bigger deal in the next two or three years than you already are and it was honor that we got to speak with you.
Oh, well, I want to say genuine. Thanks for having me on. I felt immediate resonance. I'm very much like a consents that so I think it'd be great to get together in person. Sometime, do people still do that. I don't know what we do
coffee. Are you in California? Can your Northern
California? I split my time now between the bay.
And Southern California, so where are you guys?
I'm in area.
Yeah, we both we both lived there. I lived in San Francisco for eight or nine years. I just bought a house in Texas. And so I'm in Austin as of now, but I'm a little bit nomadic. So I'm kind of all over the place. But
well, I'm gonna be in Austin a bunch because I hang out with Lex there. He's going to take me to Jujitsu again last time and he really naked choke. He lives in Austin. I've never done it before he's a black
belt. So I don't know. He lived in awful tall. Dude. I have a I have a gym here at my house, like a really nice gym, and I cry, like I happy.
Come over and we can lift heavy. I lift heavy and also we could box. I beat people up all the time. So if you want a great fucking fight, right, do that. I could we can run, right?
This is not. This is not a, we probably shouldn't box II box. I had my boxing card inbox. Pretty consistently various times. I'm not very good. You don't get a nose like this doing yoga. So it lets not box
that my man. I got a roller. We could do anything you want. I'm fit. This. This is the this is the trt speaking folks. Yeah.
Yes.
Be great fun. I'll pass you guys my number by email. Just let's tax the we're in the room. Will take it into the real world.
Thank you man. Gray fox soon. Right hand. Thanks so much.
I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to put my all into it. Like all Days on the Road. Less Traveled never looking back.
